Despite the fact that Crysis was a pretty poor game -- it had good graphics, but a horrible plot. Regardless of that fact... the engine itself, when you look at the raw numbers at what it can do; it would be the best fit for the next Tribes. Why? Well it fulfills the graphic lovers wet-dream of a "pretty" game. The physics engine is advanced and can be tweaked to meet Tribes requirements, and unlike the Source engine which is limited to very small maps, the current Crysis/Crytek engine supports up to 256km x 256km maps -- which is a major issue for Source and Unreal.
Sure Torque offers a good price, but it doesn't have the fit, finish and polish of more prominent engines. TN isn't a "Dev Studio" in any real shape or form, and after Tribes:Vengeance I doubt GarageGames is interested in reviving the series. The fact that the transfer of IP from Vivendi to Garage went by without much noise is most likely a sign that they want to retain the IP for the sake of preserving it but not for any exploitation (beyond what seems to be their push into browser embedded gaming).
Because of the steep learning curve, the games unique play style and the necessity for cooperative play anyone trying to rehash Tribes as a AAA title would be taking a huge financial risk and given the current economic instability and/or uneasiness in general with regards to spending money I doubt we'll witness a revival in the future (if at all).
As for grassroots start-ups? Well, good luck. If you can convince GarageGames to let you utilize their intellectual property then all the more power to you -- and I hope your project is successful. But keeping in mind the flop and failure that was SS:2845 I'm not sure there's much room for barter.
This is what GG is planning to port Legions over to. I have a feeling once they do its going to be a grander game. It just takes time especially since this engine is still in beta. Torques greatest advantage over most any engine is its network code. Thats why you have Tribes games with 64 players and amazingly things run pretty smooth. Just try that with Crysis.
Because of the steep learning curve, the games unique play style and the necessity for cooperative play anyone trying to rehash Tribes as a AAA title would be taking a huge financial risk and given the current economic instability and/or uneasiness in general with regards to spending money I doubt we'll witness a revival in the future (if at all).
Well... you are right about the risk of failure but the reason for that is the players if they want Tribes as it should be, more like T2. But if developers would trash the Tribes fame and the main force of the gameplay, they would move towards the T2 Classic or T1 gameplay what would end up just another Tribes: Vengeance game. If Garage Games is planning to release Tribes 3, it should be more like T2 base.
The Crysis does have great graphics, but physics seems to be littlebit over (and bad too!) for Tribes. You do not need same kind physics other parts than players. The T2 graphics is still enough but physics and textures would need retouching. Especially the player physics and to possible get a more weight to players so they would not skii uphills if player does not skii etc.
It is just sad that Tribes is great game, but most users do not like it how it is designed work (base), but want it to have more speed and easier gameplay like Classic has. But because we are talking about Tribes, it is meant to be a teamplay oriented game what does not mean speed and solo features what Classic is.
So if the T3 is someday coming, it will be designed more likely to game consoles than PC/Mac and it will be done with low learning curve for solo players in mind.
Thats why I voted that Tribes Next could be better developer because we could actually get balanced, tactical and deep gameplay for teamwork oriented game if we just forget Classic etc totally and we keep in mind the base.
Because of the steep learning curve, the games unique play style and the necessity for cooperative play anyone trying to rehash Tribes as a AAA title would be taking a huge financial risk and given the current economic instability and/or uneasiness in general with regards to spending money I doubt we'll witness a revival in the future (if at all).
Well... you are right about the risk of failure but the reason for that is the players if they want Tribes as it should be, more like T2. But if developers would trash the Tribes fame and the main force of the gameplay, they would move towards the T2 Classic or T1 gameplay what would end up just another Tribes: Vengeance game. If Garage Games is planning to release Tribes 3, it should be more like T2 base.
The Crysis does have great graphics, but physics seems to be littlebit over (and bad too!) for Tribes. You do not need same kind physics other parts than players. The T2 graphics is still enough but physics and textures would need retouching. Especially the player physics and to possible get a more weight to players so they would not skii uphills if player does not skii etc.
It is just sad that Tribes is great game, but most users do not like it how it is designed work (base), but want it to have more speed and easier gameplay like Classic has. But because we are talking about Tribes, it is meant to be a teamplay oriented game what does not mean speed and solo features what Classic is.
So if the T3 is someday coming, it will be designed more likely to game consoles than PC/Mac and it will be done with low learning curve for solo players in mind.
Thats why I voted that Tribes Next could be better developer because we could actually get balanced, tactical and deep gameplay for teamwork oriented game if we just forget Classic etc totally and we keep in mind the base.
So many things wrong with this, but I am not turning this thread into another classic vs base war.
I don't see either seriously developing T3, it would be nice though. Theres a group making a tribes like mod from Crysis already ( http://www.project-rise.org/news.php ) but it seems to be coming along reeeeeeeeeally slowly. And for some reason I can't see 64 people flying around on that though. Maybe...
I've always thought that Tribes 3 should just have Classic and Tactical options built-in to end the problem once and for all.
And the developers of a Tribes 3 need a really good plan to make Tactical CTF, because the current format just doesn't work for it at all. Maybe just go to the "easy capping" system where it only returns based on time and you don't need your flag home to score. No discing the flag, of course. Maybe you could have multiple flag stands that get closer and closer to midfield and the flag returns to the closest stand, so that a team can slowly make progress rather than have to grab it off a heavily fortified stand every time and not actually get anywhere with it. I have crazy ideas...
FYI, Tribes 2 Base was designed to try and phase out CTF. A lot of good that did...
Because of the steep learning curve, the games unique play style and the necessity for cooperative play anyone trying to rehash Tribes as a AAA title would be taking a huge financial risk and given the current economic instability and/or uneasiness in general with regards to spending money I doubt we'll witness a revival in the future (if at all).
Well... you are right about the risk of failure but the reason for that is the players if they want Tribes as it should be, more like T2. But if developers would trash the Tribes fame and the main force of the gameplay, they would move towards the T2 Classic or T1 gameplay what would end up just another Tribes: Vengeance game. If Garage Games is planning to release Tribes 3, it should be more like T2 base.
I don't think it's fair to argue which game type is "right" or "wrong" when the discussion is more oriented around the choice of engine. As with any other Tribes title (except for T:V) the modding community was a large, influential force that kept many of the players coming back; regardless if the game mode was base, classic, arena, duel, TAC, Bones, etc. It was ease of use and for the most part the open nature of the engine that made Tribes 1/2 very unique large-scale FPS titles. The issue with T:V wasn't so much if the developers would trash the games would-be 'base' but rather: To what degree could we expect to get access to modding/development tools. This is where T:V fell flat on its face. If modding tools were promptly released, well documented and easy to integrate then the community would have "fixed" whatever they thought was wrong with T:V. That was not the case, and because of that the game failed. I think we can all agree, particularly since we're still here, that graphics were never the real shining point of these titles but rather the gameplay.
The Crysis does have great graphics, but physics seems to be littlebit over (and bad too!) for Tribes. You do not need same kind physics other parts than players. The T2 graphics is still enough but physics and textures would need retouching. Especially the player physics and to possible get a more weight to players so they would not skii uphills if player does not skii etc.
I don't think you quite understand the difference between "Crysis" as a stand-alone game and Crytek and the engine by itself. The ENGINE (not the game) offers A) Great graphics. The capability to create the necessary physics that would properly reflect Tribes-style game play. The whole point of a powerful physics engine is its flexibility and with that comes the means to make whatever game fit your particular needs, be that Crysis, Tribes, Team Fortress, etc. That is why engines such as Crytek, Source and Unreal have large followings. What I was suggesting is: Given the flexibility of the Crytek engine, it's ability to support VERY large maps and the nature of its physics engine, it could provide the most up-to-date and compelling rehash of the Tribes franchise, bringing together both graphics (which T:V attempted to do) and physics (which Dynamix had a naturally talent for) into a more cohesive game.
I don't think it's fair to argue which game type is "right" or "wrong" when the discussion is more oriented around the choice of engine.
The one and only correct gameplay for Tribes is what the original developers designed it and it was Base. Classic was made for easier gameplay for players who did not want complex and skills needed game. That is just a fact, not opinion. Sorry about that. But there is nothing wrong if some people likes classic more than base, but it's their taste.
Dynamix wanted to make game what needed lots of skills, teamwork and what would be very fun to play. They got it right on T2, but most players just ain't ready for such game. Everyone can find out this by comparing PC and Game console games. Their quality, their controlling options etc.
The game development is art. And Tribes 2 is one of the games what just have all things correctly on base. All was tought throught how the balance should be build. And all should respect all the effors and the quality what they made to get their plan sucess, but many things is ruined on Classic mod.
I don't think you quite understand the difference between "Crysis" as a stand-alone game and Crytek and the engine by itself.
I understand that very well. But to make it just clear for Crysis wanters that Crysis GAME has good physics but not what Tribes would need. The engine itself could give such options for it, but it needs that developers has access to source. Crysis itself does not give those for modders. So Crysis itself ain't enough for possible T3. But the Crytek engine just could have. Those two are different things, as you understand too.
Dynamix made the game so that it could be modded, included Classic on their Tribes 2 CD (the second release), and I believe that they later said Base was a mistake.
The one and only correct gameplay for Tribes is what the original developers designed it and it was Base. Classic was made for easier gameplay for players who did not want complex and skills needed game. That is just a fact, not opinion. Sorry about that. But there is nothing wrong if some people likes classic more than base, but it's their taste.
Classic players are better than Base players at Base. Explain how this is possible if Base is the mod that takes more skill and strategy. Proof: see Viking Kitties. A team of all Classic players who joined the Base ladder and crushed it without even practicing at all.
Dynamix wanted to make game what needed lots of skills, teamwork and what would be very fun to play. They got it right on T2, but most players just ain't ready for such game. Everyone can find out this by comparing PC and Game console games. Their quality, their controlling options etc.
What Dynamix wanted doesn't matter. Just because they made the game doesn't mean they are infallible. In fact, the Tribes 2 development team even admitted in a thread on TribalWar that they were wrong when they made Base, and they should have made Tribes 2 like Tribes 1 right from the start. The rest of this paragraph is right though; gaming used to be an exclusive thing that only "nerds" did, and all games aimed to please these people. Now, gaming is a huge market, and pretty everyone does it. So, the best strategy for gaming companies is to pump out really simple games as fast as possible and rake in the dough from all the people who don't give a shit if the game they are buying is actually good.
The game development is art. And Tribes 2 is one of the games what just have all things correctly on base. All was tought throught how the balance should be build. And all should respect all the effors and the quality what they made to get their plan sucess, but many things is ruined on Classic mod.
Base was not thought out at all. Base was designed by one person and one person alone, Dave Georgeson. Everyone else on Dynamix just fell in line and did as he wanted, since he was the boss. Later he even admitted that he was wrong and should have done things differently - without Base. I hate to break it to you, but every true Tribes player realizes that Base was a mistake, and I'm sure that includes people at GG. If they decide to continue Tribes, it will be true Tribes (aka T1), not T2 Base.
As far as game engines go, if GG does try to make another Tribes, it will be on their own TGEA engine. It's not a great engine, but why on earth would they use someone else's engine when they have their own that's based off of the old T1/T2 engines to begin with?
If you want a game engine that can duplicate Tribes you might want to look at the engine used in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. I know some of you may go for the immediate put down but listen.
You can actually ski in ET:QW as long as you are using the Icarus and you can perform carving maneuvers. It works just like it does in Tribes. As long as you are holding down the JUMP key you can slide along the ground as if it were glass. You use your movement keys just like in tribes to move around the terrain. You can use hills, valleys and any terrain formation to adjust your speed and direction. You use the Icarus Jet just like the jetpack to get moving in the air and for direction. You can get some decent speed. With a little tweaking it could be exactly like Tribes.
Now I haven't looked to see what the maximum map size can be for the engine but it can definitely support Tribes like game play. Just check it out. Heck you can buy the game for under $10.
Plain and simple Tribes 3 should follow suit with everything from Tribes 1, and Tribes 2. Stop trying to re-invent the damn game, stop thinking everyone wants to play LT 24/7, yes some people like some useful vehicles maybe just balance them out a bit, add a few new things, classic physics/speed, good tourney mode and server all on the new uber engine. Does it really take 3 tries to figure this out? Look how full those Legions servers are...you can hear the crickets chirping. They are trying to grow the community by pushing competiton play. That aint gonna do it. The pub play needs to be fun and addicitive. Competition grows out of that as more serious players move into that realm.
If you want a game engine that can duplicate Tribes you might want to look at the engine used in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. I know some of you may go for the immediate put down but listen.
Actually I agree with you. The TribalWars mod looks really good, but one or two guys can only do so much. A few of the QuakeWars devs were big time Tribes fans. In the end, howvever, people really want a full out commercial effort to make a Tribes 3. There are already so many home brewed Tribes like projects that never really go anywhere.
people really want a full out commercial effort to make a Tribes 3. There are already so many home brewed Tribes like projects that never really go anywhere.
The home-brews would be okay, if they didn't try being innovative...and/or could use the official terms from Tribes (i.e. Spinfusor, Shocklance, etc).
Oh, and if they didn't take 100+ years to actually make some form of release. :P
people really want a full out commercial effort to make a Tribes 3. There are already so many home brewed Tribes like projects that never really go anywhere.
The home-brews would be okay, if they didn't try being innovative...and/or could use the official terms from Tribes (i.e. Spinfusor, Shocklance, etc).
Oh, and if they didn't take 100+ years to actually make some form of release. :P
Well its hard to build a full out mod with tons of content, good art etc with one or two people. I just think the only way you can grab back a large following of players is to build a full out commercial game and back it with decent marketing. Halo is an average FPS game. It took off because it had the Microsoft marketing machine behind it.
If something mediocre can take off because of massive marketing, imagine what something beyond mediocre (Tribes) could do with decent marketing.
Not much has been heard about Twars as of late. Arcanox seems to be the only guy working on it. I think Andrew of t1 fame was helping a bit with the physics but now Andrew is apparently working with Garage Games to help with Playtribes.com. Neolight did a lot of that kickass twars concept art and he's just nineteen. He's been hanging around in the IA forums. GG guys were really impressed with his artwork. He mentioned that perhaps we shouldn't hold our breathe for twars :-[. I agree the art and look of twars looks so right for a Tribes 3. Not all this bungled stuff people unfamiliar with the game conjure up.
Comments
Sure Torque offers a good price, but it doesn't have the fit, finish and polish of more prominent engines. TN isn't a "Dev Studio" in any real shape or form, and after Tribes:Vengeance I doubt GarageGames is interested in reviving the series. The fact that the transfer of IP from Vivendi to Garage went by without much noise is most likely a sign that they want to retain the IP for the sake of preserving it but not for any exploitation (beyond what seems to be their push into browser embedded gaming).
Because of the steep learning curve, the games unique play style and the necessity for cooperative play anyone trying to rehash Tribes as a AAA title would be taking a huge financial risk and given the current economic instability and/or uneasiness in general with regards to spending money I doubt we'll witness a revival in the future (if at all).
As for grassroots start-ups? Well, good luck. If you can convince GarageGames to let you utilize their intellectual property then all the more power to you -- and I hope your project is successful. But keeping in mind the flop and failure that was SS:2845 I'm not sure there's much room for barter.
Well... you are right about the risk of failure but the reason for that is the players if they want Tribes as it should be, more like T2. But if developers would trash the Tribes fame and the main force of the gameplay, they would move towards the T2 Classic or T1 gameplay what would end up just another Tribes: Vengeance game. If Garage Games is planning to release Tribes 3, it should be more like T2 base.
The Crysis does have great graphics, but physics seems to be littlebit over (and bad too!) for Tribes. You do not need same kind physics other parts than players. The T2 graphics is still enough but physics and textures would need retouching. Especially the player physics and to possible get a more weight to players so they would not skii uphills if player does not skii etc.
It is just sad that Tribes is great game, but most users do not like it how it is designed work (base), but want it to have more speed and easier gameplay like Classic has. But because we are talking about Tribes, it is meant to be a teamplay oriented game what does not mean speed and solo features what Classic is.
So if the T3 is someday coming, it will be designed more likely to game consoles than PC/Mac and it will be done with low learning curve for solo players in mind.
Thats why I voted that Tribes Next could be better developer because we could actually get balanced, tactical and deep gameplay for teamwork oriented game if we just forget Classic etc totally and we keep in mind the base.
So many things wrong with this, but I am not turning this thread into another classic vs base war.
I don't see either seriously developing T3, it would be nice though. Theres a group making a tribes like mod from Crysis already ( http://www.project-rise.org/news.php ) but it seems to be coming along reeeeeeeeeally slowly. And for some reason I can't see 64 people flying around on that though. Maybe...
And the developers of a Tribes 3 need a really good plan to make Tactical CTF, because the current format just doesn't work for it at all. Maybe just go to the "easy capping" system where it only returns based on time and you don't need your flag home to score. No discing the flag, of course. Maybe you could have multiple flag stands that get closer and closer to midfield and the flag returns to the closest stand, so that a team can slowly make progress rather than have to grab it off a heavily fortified stand every time and not actually get anywhere with it. I have crazy ideas...
FYI, Tribes 2 Base was designed to try and phase out CTF. A lot of good that did...
I don't think it's fair to argue which game type is "right" or "wrong" when the discussion is more oriented around the choice of engine. As with any other Tribes title (except for T:V) the modding community was a large, influential force that kept many of the players coming back; regardless if the game mode was base, classic, arena, duel, TAC, Bones, etc. It was ease of use and for the most part the open nature of the engine that made Tribes 1/2 very unique large-scale FPS titles. The issue with T:V wasn't so much if the developers would trash the games would-be 'base' but rather: To what degree could we expect to get access to modding/development tools. This is where T:V fell flat on its face. If modding tools were promptly released, well documented and easy to integrate then the community would have "fixed" whatever they thought was wrong with T:V. That was not the case, and because of that the game failed. I think we can all agree, particularly since we're still here, that graphics were never the real shining point of these titles but rather the gameplay.
I don't think you quite understand the difference between "Crysis" as a stand-alone game and Crytek and the engine by itself. The ENGINE (not the game) offers A) Great graphics.
http://forums.renwerx.com/showthread.php?t=4564
The one and only correct gameplay for Tribes is what the original developers designed it and it was Base. Classic was made for easier gameplay for players who did not want complex and skills needed game. That is just a fact, not opinion. Sorry about that. But there is nothing wrong if some people likes classic more than base, but it's their taste.
Dynamix wanted to make game what needed lots of skills, teamwork and what would be very fun to play. They got it right on T2, but most players just ain't ready for such game. Everyone can find out this by comparing PC and Game console games. Their quality, their controlling options etc.
The game development is art. And Tribes 2 is one of the games what just have all things correctly on base. All was tought throught how the balance should be build. And all should respect all the effors and the quality what they made to get their plan sucess, but many things is ruined on Classic mod.
I understand that very well. But to make it just clear for Crysis wanters that Crysis GAME has good physics but not what Tribes would need. The engine itself could give such options for it, but it needs that developers has access to source. Crysis itself does not give those for modders. So Crysis itself ain't enough for possible T3. But the Crytek engine just could have. Those two are different things, as you understand too.
Classic players are better than Base players at Base. Explain how this is possible if Base is the mod that takes more skill and strategy. Proof: see Viking Kitties. A team of all Classic players who joined the Base ladder and crushed it without even practicing at all.
What Dynamix wanted doesn't matter. Just because they made the game doesn't mean they are infallible. In fact, the Tribes 2 development team even admitted in a thread on TribalWar that they were wrong when they made Base, and they should have made Tribes 2 like Tribes 1 right from the start. The rest of this paragraph is right though; gaming used to be an exclusive thing that only "nerds" did, and all games aimed to please these people. Now, gaming is a huge market, and pretty everyone does it. So, the best strategy for gaming companies is to pump out really simple games as fast as possible and rake in the dough from all the people who don't give a shit if the game they are buying is actually good.
Base was not thought out at all. Base was designed by one person and one person alone, Dave Georgeson. Everyone else on Dynamix just fell in line and did as he wanted, since he was the boss. Later he even admitted that he was wrong and should have done things differently - without Base. I hate to break it to you, but every true Tribes player realizes that Base was a mistake, and I'm sure that includes people at GG. If they decide to continue Tribes, it will be true Tribes (aka T1), not T2 Base.
As far as game engines go, if GG does try to make another Tribes, it will be on their own TGEA engine. It's not a great engine, but why on earth would they use someone else's engine when they have their own that's based off of the old T1/T2 engines to begin with?
You can actually ski in ET:QW as long as you are using the Icarus and you can perform carving maneuvers. It works just like it does in Tribes. As long as you are holding down the JUMP key you can slide along the ground as if it were glass. You use your movement keys just like in tribes to move around the terrain. You can use hills, valleys and any terrain formation to adjust your speed and direction. You use the Icarus Jet just like the jetpack to get moving in the air and for direction. You can get some decent speed. With a little tweaking it could be exactly like Tribes.
Now I haven't looked to see what the maximum map size can be for the engine but it can definitely support Tribes like game play. Just check it out. Heck you can buy the game for under $10.
http://www.twars.org/
It looks like they have got skiing down pat including disc jumping. The maps in the videos on the blog page look decent sized.
Maybe if the guy got some help we could see something released in the not too distant future.
Actually I agree with you. The TribalWars mod looks really good, but one or two guys can only do so much. A few of the QuakeWars devs were big time Tribes fans. In the end, howvever, people really want a full out commercial effort to make a Tribes 3. There are already so many home brewed Tribes like projects that never really go anywhere.
Oh, and if they didn't take 100+ years to actually make some form of release. :P
Well its hard to build a full out mod with tons of content, good art etc with one or two people. I just think the only way you can grab back a large following of players is to build a full out commercial game and back it with decent marketing. Halo is an average FPS game. It took off because it had the Microsoft marketing machine behind it.
If something mediocre can take off because of massive marketing, imagine what something beyond mediocre (Tribes) could do with decent marketing.
http://forum.instantaction.com/smf/index.php/topic,9259.msg135210.html#msg135210
sounds like gg is up to something big