General Discussion

[blazzingroach]

Where did T2 go wrong?

When Sierra canned Dynamix.

[Ensign Munro]

...younger crowd...bragging rights...

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease for the love of all that is holy NO ACHIEVEMENTS!

There is already a mod for that.

It's called "PJ's SuperStats." It keeps track of all kinds of things, from kills to how many times you defended your flag.

Anyway, back on topic.

Tribes 2's downfall? "Fast-food" gamers.

No, I am not talking about people that run to White Castle for their Sliders before their precious 25-man Naxx raid starts, but people like them. People nowadays want a game that has no learning-curve, spells everything out for them, and can be played solo, with grouping if they want to. That is where games like WoW, CoH/CoV, and a lot of other games come into play. They give people that option to play solo, but group when needed, as well as spelling the game out for them (seriously, what learning-curve is there in being a Mage in WoW or a Corruptor in CoV? Absolutely nothing).

People that play games nowadays want a game that you can just jump into and start playing, without delay and without having to learn anything complex. Of all the MMOs that I have played, the only, and I mean ONLY ones, that have some degree of complexity or a decent learning curve, are Tribes 2 and Star Wars Galaxies (Pre-Combat Update. This New Game Enhancement bullshit is just another WoW-clone).

With Tribes 2, you have to learn the arcs of your Grenade and Mortar launchers, inventory setups, loadouts, proper flag defense, and a shitload of other things. That's a good learning curve. You get a MUCH better gaming experience when you have to learn the game in order to play it. There were so many times when I swore that I would never play Tribes 2 again when I started to play, but always came back, because I thought, "Well, maybe if I try this loadout and place the turrets here instead of there..." You have to keep learning and learning, but the outcome is the best gaming experience you will ever have in the First-Person Shooter.

And, SWG is no different. Sure, it is an MMORPG, but it has a complexity that few other MMORPGs can match or exceed. Back during it's prime, you had 31 different professions to choose from, mixing and matching to fit your playstyle. There was no "level" system (well, there was, it was just so blurred and irrelevant that there was never mention of it), no "I want you to kill X living bushes" questline, no "fast-food" gamer bullshit. It was complex, the learning-curve was steep, and the community was phenomenal.

However, as I stated before, the "fast-food" gamers started to pop up, and games that had even an ounce of complexity in them became obsolete, or adapted to the needs and wants of the new gamer generation.

So, I do have to agree with what a few people here have said. It was most likely the complexity and learning-curve that was the downfall of Tribes 2.

In these days, the "fast-food" gamer is what companies make their money from.

[blazzingroach]

 Tribes and T2 is one of the first large open terrain WAR games.  Some of the other and later WAR games were/are too much like a rat in a maze. The other massive games that have come out are social games. There is not much in the way of TEAM cooperation in the social type games. Except when a bunch of higher level cumquats go raiding lower level areas, which equals, NO SKILL. Battles take minutes. Tribes on the other hands is a constant battle. And IMHO, the greatest WARGAME ever made. Constantly learning stuff with T2 even though I haven't had a decent connection to play online, I still dig through the game.

So basicly Ensign Munro and others, it's not that Tribes2 went wrong, the players went wrong.  oh, and Sierra canning Dynamix, then that crappy Tribes Vengance.

[Ensign Munro]

Tribes and T2 is one of the first large open terrain WAR games.  Some of the other and later WAR games were/are too much like a rat in a maze. The other massive games that have come out are social games. There is not much in the way of TEAM cooperation in the social type games. Except when a bunch of higher level cumquats go raiding lower level areas, which equals, NO SKILL. Battles take minutes. Tribes on the other hands is a constant battle. And IMHO, the greatest WARGAME ever made. Constantly learning stuff with T2 even though I haven't had a decent connection to play online, I still dig through the game.

So basicly Ensign Munro and others, it's not that Tribes2 went wrong, the players went wrong.  oh, and Sierra canning Dynamix, then that crappy Tribes Vengance.

Hence why I used the term "fast-food" gamer. :-)

They want a game with no learning-curve, easy to understand, and want to just jump in without the fear or threat of getting beat the second they spawn/create their character.

[ScratchMonkey]

Tribes and T2 is one of the first large open terrain WAR games.  Some of the other and later WAR games were/are too much like a rat in a maze.

How were the Battlefield series "like a rat in a maze"? How about ETQW? (My beef with EA isn't the quality of BF but the way they treat community server operators as 2nd class citizens, with all the focus on "ranked" servers.)

The other massive games that have come out are social games. There is not much in the way of TEAM cooperation in the social type games. Except when a bunch of higher level cumquats go raiding lower level areas, which equals, NO SKILL. Battles take minutes.

Which social game is this?

I'm mostly familiar with WoW, and while there's a lot of solo play, there are aspects where team play is critical.

Constantly learning stuff with T2 even though I haven't had a decent connection to play online, I still dig through the game.

Agreed. So I'm a bit worried at Garage Games' move towards "instant action" (the name of their web-based venture).

[DUN_DUNNA]

...younger crowd...bragging rights...

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease for the love of all that is holy NO ACHIEVEMENTS!

There is already a mod for that.

It's called "PJ's SuperStats." It keeps track of all kinds of things, from kills to how many times you defended your flag.

Anyway, back on topic.

Tribes 2's downfall? "Fast-food" gamers.

No, I am not talking about people that run to White Castle for their Sliders before their precious 25-man Naxx raid starts, but people like them. People nowadays want a game that has no learning-curve, spells everything out for them, and can be played solo, with grouping if they want to. That is where games like WoW, CoH/CoV, and a lot of other games come into play. They give people that option to play solo, but group when needed, as well as spelling the game out for them (seriously, what learning-curve is there in being a Mage in WoW or a Corruptor in CoV? Absolutely nothing).

People that play games nowadays want a game that you can just jump into and start playing, without delay and without having to learn anything complex. Of all the MMOs that I have played, the only, and I mean ONLY ones, that have some degree of complexity or a decent learning curve, are Tribes 2 and Star Wars Galaxies (Pre-Combat Update. This New Game Enhancement bullshit is just another WoW-clone).

With Tribes 2, you have to learn the arcs of your Grenade and Mortar launchers, inventory setups, loadouts, proper flag defense, and a shitload of other things. That's a good learning curve. You get a MUCH better gaming experience when you have to learn the game in order to play it. There were so many times when I swore that I would never play Tribes 2 again when I started to play, but always came back, because I thought, "Well, maybe if I try this loadout and place the turrets here instead of there..." You have to keep learning and learning, but the outcome is the best gaming experience you will ever have in the First-Person Shooter.

And, SWG is no different. Sure, it is an MMORPG, but it has a complexity that few other MMORPGs can match or exceed. Back during it's prime, you had 31 different professions to choose from, mixing and matching to fit your playstyle. There was no "level" system (well, there was, it was just so blurred and irrelevant that there was never mention of it), no "I want you to kill X living bushes" questline, no "fast-food" gamer bullshit. It was complex, the learning-curve was steep, and the community was phenomenal.

However, as I stated before, the "fast-food" gamers started to pop up, and games that had even an ounce of complexity in them became obsolete, or adapted to the needs and wants of the new gamer generation.

So, I do have to agree with what a few people here have said. It was most likely the complexity and learning-curve that was the downfall of Tribes 2.

In these days, the "fast-food" gamer is what companies make their money from.

I hope I don't get in trouble with the forum mods, but the funniest most unique reply from a player to a developer about the new game enhancement for Star Was Galaxies has to be this one:

Prepare yourself!



I never played Star Wars Galaxies, but I admire the honesty and dedication of this player though!

[Abstract]

Yeah, except that he's one of those retards who think it's cool to misspell wordz.  Douche.

[ScratchMonkey]

Yeah, except that he's one of those retards who think it's cool to misspell wordz.  Douche.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudere%27s_Law

[UFO-POOFLY]

Where did T2 go wrong?

When Sierra canned Dynamix.

Yes, I second this.

[Scholtz]

With Tribes 2, you have to learn the arcs of your Grenade and Mortar launchers, inventory setups, loadouts, proper flag defense, and a shitload of other things. That's a good learning curve. You get a MUCH better gaming experience when you have to learn the game in order to play it. There were so many times when I swore that I would never play Tribes 2 again when I started to play, but always came back, because I thought, "Well, maybe if I try this loadout and place the turrets here instead of there..." You have to keep learning and learning, but the outcome is the best gaming experience you will ever have in the First-Person Shooter.

I remember when I started T2. I was never ever heard about T1 and nothing about T2. It just looked and sounded nice game what was written on back of the box. I bought the game and first few days I just got nailed every damn aspect what could be founded. I was total HC of quake and CS, but they both had something missing and it was the aspect of deepness.

It was just "a must" to go back to T2 to try to find best ways, just like you told. And now I am on same situation after years when wanting to come back to play.

So, I do have to agree with what a few people here have said. It was most likely the complexity and learning-curve that was the downfall of Tribes 2.
]/quote]

I can not do less than just agree. Game just take too much time to learn well and it toke too much from personality to understand that even you are great on other game, you ain't on all of them and especially on T2 :-D

And T2 was never about speed. I miss base times and I dont like Classic. This is just a personal opinion so just take it as it is. Classic ended the quality of T2. The speed where you ski faster than shrike flies and juggernauts caps the flags while scouts are merely more only a 10 second lifetime players. The ultimate balance and tactic was ruined and vehicles were nerfed almost useless. It is just sad that Classic is just like CS or Quake on T2. The Real T2 ain't anymore.

And one what ruined T2 was custom sounds. People spams public channel with their soundpacks and ruines the enjoyment of the game. Almost everyone wants to be a solo master and teamplay is forgotten totally.

Mayby one reason why T2 failed too, was too great scriptin possibilities. Like bomber pilots reticle for bombing ruined the skill needed to know how the bomber flies.
You got lots of scripts what gaved to some players advantage over others what they should not have, like script what shows where all the teammates are going or red/green line top of their head to help aim.

I would include, that if T2 could be better success, it was should to have better singleplayer tutorials (more of them) and actually teach different approaches for missions. And then have better quality of code. Now I still get UE more often than I got with last Dynamix patch. Dont know why.

If T2 would gain updated engine so the terrain could be more smooth on some of parts and better physics, it would be  enough. Mayby a better lighting environments and we could almost publish it as T3 ;-)

[blazzingroach]

How were the Battlefield series "like a rat in a maze"? How about ETQW? (My beef with EA isn't the quality of BF but the way they treat community server operators as 2nd class citizens, with all the focus on "ranked" servers.)

"Rat in the Maze" games like the Half Life mod, Day of Defeat, Firearms. Forgot about that Battlefield.  Wouldn't run very well on the machine I had when it came out, so I dismissed it. Now that I have a better camputer, I might take a look at Battlefield again.

Which social game is this?
I'm mostly familiar with WoW, and while there's a lot of solo play, there are aspects where team play is critical.

WoW. One of the biggest wastes of my money and time. Spend an hour looking to join a quest only to get sidelined by a bunch of bashers. Yeah I know there are different ways to play WoW. Just didn't feel like a total team type game for me. I'm sure there were/are lots of T2 players that don't bother with the team aspect of Tribes and run solo all over the map, but if that's what players like to do, fine.
One just doesn't  just play T2, one almost lives it. It was a great part of my free time. Very addictive. I actually learned how computer games worked by being able to dig into the program. The community that embraced Tribes is top notch. Not just the players, but the scripters and artist also.

[ScratchMonkey]

"Rat in the Maze" games like the Half Life mod, Day of Defeat, Firearms. Forgot about that Battlefield.  Wouldn't run very well on the machine I had when it came out, so I dismissed it. Now that I have a better camputer, I might take a look at Battlefield again.

Agreed, it's a resource hog by T2 standards. You'll probably recognize elements of T2 in BF2, like the vehicles, the command screen, and deployables. All dumbed down quite a bit, so frustrating for us T2 old-timers.

WoW. One of the biggest wastes of my money and time. Spend an hour looking to join a quest only to get sidelined by a bunch of bashers. Yeah I know there are different ways to play WoW. Just didn't feel like a total team type game for me. I'm sure there were/are lots of T2 players that don't bother with the team aspect of Tribes and run solo all over the map, but if that's what players like to do, fine.

Trying to just jump into WoW by yourself will be like that. Better to find friends that play it and join them, so you have the benefit of a team to play with and guide you. Before I used up all my character slots (WoW only allows 10 unique players per server, and I wanted to have lots of different kinds of characters to see all aspects of the game), I would start a new character when a new player joined the team, just to go off and be a mentor. I was pretty frustrated last night to have someone's kid join the guild and not be able to go help. (It's pointless to take a high level into a low level area, due to the way the reward system works.)

[Jamrock]

I don't have time to read all of this as i'm having an orgasm over T2 being revived.

TBH: The game is too hardcore for these scrubs that call themselves "gamers" these days. That is the bottom line. We are hardcore true gamers, they are scrub ass mofos who think they're good. Tribes 2 is hardcore for the elite, always has been always will be. Many have never even heard of it...

There has been no game to date that has even come close to the size and scope of Tribes 2. This game was WAY ahead of it's time and honestly still seems to be.. it's amazing really and not sure why it hasn't caught on with more people by now. Just wasn't marketed well I guess... and many are too scrub to give it a chance.

This game is AWESOME. I have a feeling the community will grow now with this project since it is free and all... we just need to throw it out there lol.

I was searching the web for updated graphics of old games... and somewhere I saw a Tribes 2 Getting Revived article somewhere.

Figured this article was from 2005 or some dumb crap.. looked at it and almost shat my pants. <3 Tribes 2 for LIFE!

[Jamrock]

It's way too hard for the average gamer. With 90% of the games that are popular, you can be a complete moron and still play them effectively. In T2 you have to be a competent gamer if you want to be able to do anything at all. It also doesn't help that a very large majority of the original T1 fan-base abandoned T2 early on because of Base. So, T2 had a tough time attracting new gamers as well as old fans. Unfortunately, gaming nowadays is not about skill or depth or anything remotely substantial. Gaming nowadays is about graphics, spam and thoughtlessness.

I agree entirely with that post. i showed the guys in my class it, the younger guys (17-18) said, "dude that sucks." to which i replied, "What?! Why?" he says, "Those graphics suck..." then i told him to not even talk anymore. Which he didn't. Sadly none of the guys who would give it a shot have gotten around to getting it yet.

It's very unfortunate, they all think console gaming is the way to go...

LOL at that my friend. Those kids your talking about are TOTAL scrubs. I went on my console phase for a time.. played xbox 360 religously for a while.. it's fun with a 50" 1080p plasma and surround sound. The graphics and high tech are fun. But nothing beats going back to the olden days to play this game... it's just awesome. No game has even come close... *sigh* it kind of makes me mad that this game is not more popularized.

The graphics in this game really aren't that bad (I might be in for the surprise of my life.. haven't played in 8 years lol) , but at the time it was out the graphics were way ahead of it's time too. And if the textures are still decent I will be happy. Texture pack anyone? High-res mod?

Anyways... it's sad that the future generation is leaning toward consoles. Nothing beats the precision of a mouse and keyboard.. it's just so much more of a challenge actually requires skill. Xbox 360 first person shooters are a JOKE. Good luck everyone, let's keep this alive I will do whatever it takes. LEt's get a big server going! Peace all take it easy 

[lyrae]

Where did T2 go wrong?

When Sierra canned Dynamix.

thirded. alex did as much as he could for the community afterwards i think.

dynamix got their game back with GG getting the ip rights? or was i miss informed?


oh and screw the gfx crew as long as i get a target to hit. QL is feeding my addiction atm i'm a relative noob at quake but i'm learning fast, them ma's are comming along nicley.

 i'm glad i gave up q3 for t2 though;)

my perfect partnership in gaming would be ccp and dynamix.


valve have it nailed so forget them.