I'm getting tired of newbie cloakers accusing me of using cheats. I'm not a cloak pack user so I can't give tips on how ot use it more effectively however, this is how I find you guys:
Maybe there are some good cloakers out there who can help you guys out.
- If you are standing very close to me, I can hear your pack. I will move away and fire some random shots in the general area I was just standing in. If I happen to hit you, I will catch a quick glimpse of your outline and I will continue to fire till you're dead.
- If you are walking around outside while cloaked, I can see your footprints and I know where to shoot. You are a very easy target because it's not likely you'll do much flying around in that pack while concealed. Just because you stop walking around and stop making new footprints doesn't mean I will forget where I saw the last footprint.
- When cameras are deployed, (very easy to do since you just toss cameras out like grenades) I can't see you, but I can see the enormous red triangle over your head. A cabbage can guestimate where your body would be... I am very likely to deploy cameras on a dark, cavernous, indoor map like minotaur.
Maybe there are some good cloakers out there who can help you guys out.
*You can use freelook to look around corners, just have your back to the wall and free look.
*Keep your cloak of when people aren't around, it prevents you from being heard, And if it's a map with the base making whirring noises, or any noise, use it to your advantage.
*Mix it up a little, as if you keep coming, they're gonna expect it.
*You must know how to farm, because you will need to know where farmers would place turrets etc.
*Look for turrets, and sentry turrets = death.
*If detected, either suicide, or if you have a chance of living, throw whiteout grenades, and hightail it outta there. Chances are you won't live though.
*Motion sensors are easy to spot, I mean, they glow red. Cameras, are harder to spot, look for little bumps.
*Choose targets carefully, and lancing someone won't do much good, because if you're in the base, they'll respawn anyway.
*Use your brain. It's there for a reason.
*Use confusion to your advantage ( steer clear of friendly heavies storming about shooting mortars at anything that moves)
*Have a sure spot to recharge your energy, never let your guard down.
*My loadouts: Scout (duh) Lance, Plasma Rifle, Blaster (Good for distractions) Cloaking pack (Obviously) And whiteout grenades. This loadout can be altered depending on what you need.
*Make a scouting run first, check out defense positions, areas that are frequently visited, set up a sensor net first, so you can see where the enemies are.
*There is a way to conceal your foot steps, I'm not telling you, because if I did, I'd have to kill you.
*Grav cycle is a great way to get to where you need. Or hitch a ride on a havok with some heavies. Make sure to jump off somewhere away from the action, you'll get killed my mortar flak.
*Try not to make much noise.
*Some people are VERY VERY SHARP.
* If you run out of energy, get somewhere safe quick, doing anything else can attract attention. Lancing uses energy, use it wisely.
*Don't spend entire matches cloaking, do it as a side thing, like going in and destroying automated defenses. (destroying sentry turrets is not recommended, just stay clear of them)
*Go in through some other entrance, Never go to the front door. Or the Vpad. Hide under the vpad, but don't go near the vpad when not hiding.
*One funny thing to do, is shoot a inventory till it's almost destroyed, then leave a mine on it. (It should still be functional, with the little lights on it)
*Or you could hop in to an enemy havok. Hilarious.
*Some maps just aren't good for cloaking.
* I like to use some skin that's not bright when cloaking, Like diamond sword. It gives me more confidence for some reason.
*Don't hang around enemies for too long, they'll hear you.
*When attacking, go slow. Don't rush in a plasma every invo. Someone will hear and think something is up.
*Shocklance smaller deployables, like cameras, and motion sensors, leave turrets damged enough so that they no longer function, that, way, they still take up a slot
*Look at the ceiling before entering a room. Chances are there's a clamp somewhere.
*Look at the floor too, mines. Remember, some enemies put beacons next to their mines o friendlies can see em, now, you can still see the beacon, as it's a little red glowing disk.
Well, that's all i can remember right now, hope you like the guide.
(There is a script somewhere on tribal outpost, called auto look, get it.)
Honestly, the cloak is more trouble than it's worth. You don't have the staying power to keep a generator down and you can't really sabotage the enemy for long. Good defenders will also have countermeasures in place. It has its uses, but only if you're desperate. Good uses include:
I'm not saying you can't be effective doing other things, but it just won't happen against good players.
evangel, you have some good suggestions. I think I've tried to sit on you in a havoc before!
Red Shifter, great stuff.
i'm a big advocate of using cloak over sensor jammer, mostly because most players don't deploy motion sensors as part of a normal farm, and cloak protects you from pulse sensors without it being activated anyhow. the cloak pack is something that should really only be used by very very good players who know exactly what to do with them (cpm is great at raping with cloak pack, and players like nev, lonzo, and absolute were awesome at flag standoffs using cloak pack). the only use i have for it is usually during standoffs, where they're exceedingly effective. If you're trying to be some sort of ninja assassin like evangel/niner, you're using it wrong
edit: You can use cloak to take out snipers and heavies spamming mortars, providing they stay still ( WHICH IS NEVER)
I think you play on Goons, right Evangel? The heavy population of that server would make cloak difficult. I see a lot of excellent players who frequent Branzone there as well so you're also facing the vets.
You are tactically brilliant just based on your explanations of cloaking experiences. Great potential. I hope you also spend some time in e-pack and master uber skiing/outdoor combat to be well rounded for maximum competitive potential.
I struggle with anything but straightforward play. I have to force myself to be less up front, direct. Definitely a flaw in combat at times. It's my personality. Cloak is not me. I use SJ on occasion with good success because it's passive.
You guys posted such extensive material about the cloak and a lot of fun ideas. Now they're gonna be coming out of the woodwork!
but yeah, use cloaking for returning standoffs, generally not for anything else
You recognize in your post the advantages of being able to cloak in addition to other skills including proficency with e-pack.
From what I've seen, people who are good at cloak are extremely rare. It's a specail talent.
People who are good in e-pack...well, that's just about everyone.
Shield pack is also important and difficult. Powerful if you are skilled at it.
I usually do outdoor cloaking. When outdoors, try to go for people on hills, because if they spot you, you can easily ski away.
Avoid motion sensors. If you're in range of one, it's not (necessarily) the end of the world. Stand still, shoot it, run, and hope no one saw you.
Make note of hiding spots and generator rooms. If you have to, run through your own base. I've played this game so long, that I know all of the bases by heart, so that makes it just that much more easier for me.
Go for heavies and snipers.
Toss mines if you're getting elf'd. This will deter the elf for a second or two.
Shoot discs at motion sensors from far away. Also avoid the sentry turret.
If you want to piss people off and v-pad cloak, the best way to rack up kills is to mine-disc the vehicle station. You'll kill plenty of people, and you don't necessarily have to be close.
Shocklance skills and ping also play a factor. I'm pretty good with the shocklance, so, I usually hit most of my targets. I'll offer my secrets to any other newbies who really need it. Some of them need to be shown in-game, though.
And im as good an asassin as you.
Because of you, I carry an elf at most times, theres always some jock cloaker after your but.
There are so many advantages to using a SJ pack its not even funny.
If you want to talk actual usefulness... And trying to be "Constructive" as you put it. The only thing I can see a cloak pack doing, is help you quickly get into an base to take out the Gens. And even this is hard if you have defenders wearing SJs, Motion sensors in good spots, and Cameras to worry about. Sure you can take them out, but you risk what... BEING SPOTTED. Which kind of defeats the purpose of wearing a cloak pack don't you think?
As I've said time and time and again, I usually don't play to win. I play for fun. Which the Cloak pack definitely is. But please, don't try and convince me that your cloak pack is going to do much as far as helping your team win goes. One cloaker can't do much against a good setup of enemy defense, other than offer a little distraction for a while.
Was responding to this by the way. And honestly.. It's not at all hard to use a cloak pack to score a few kills... I can't believe you just said "because you can't use it lol."
I think most people learned the cloak pack as one of their first packs because it has that "ooo ahhh!" factor of invisibility. So yea, I learned cloak pack a long time ago. Then I came to the realization that other than scoring a few kills for myself. I wasn't doing much...
I usually end up getting killed once or twice due to a stray TK mortar in a good cloaking game. I get cursed at quite often, since most people hate cloakers.
I never kill generators (or enter the enemy base, for that matter). Killing the generators makes it too easy for you to get killed. In a base without power, there's no humming, and no humming means it's easier to hear you.
Classic is unbalanced almost all possible ways.
On base, you only noticed a cloaker by two things. 1) a sound of pack 2) the predator kind a cloak. So you could be seen if you were not carefully. And on base, the cloaker had much less energy, so player could not move long distanced as cloacked, it needed skills and knowledge of the base/map where to walk to generate energy and then move along.
When cloaked, the player does not show any retancle over their head. This got done when using motion sensor. Then you saw that there is enemy cloaked.
Then you could use sensor jammer pack, to generate the jammed 20 meter radius what uncloaked the enemy, but did not show the retancle over their head that they are enemy. You needed to recognize the tribe armor or the pack (unless the other was shooting you ).
Then you could use ELF-gun what snapped to all objects, even cloaked enemy. But because it had limited range and target area, it was worse than sensor jammer pack to find out cloakers.
Camera was only device what shown jammed person or cloaker when he was using cloak. Jammer could not fool the camera even when activating jamming. And cameras were designed to allow you to observe enemy base/actions without being there. Never as third sensortype like on Classic.
On base, the cloaker was always jammed when the cloack was inactive. So it had own advantage. Sensor Jammer pack wielder was not when pack was unactive.
On Classic, the sensorjammer pack is overpowered on deactivated mode. Only way to turrets or enemy to recognize you is your tribe armor/actions or cameras. Motion sensor does not show you as enemy like on the base. So many base rapers use sensor jammer packs on Classic because it is just too overpowered, even on outdoor fighting when it does not need your energy to use them.
Or you know, you could open your eyes and notice the obvious lack of a GREEN TRIANGLE on that enemy carrying a sensor jammer. Sure it's not as attention-catching as the red-colored SHOOT ME -blimp you usually get, but it's plenty enough to draw attention if he happens to stumble into your personal proximity.
I like the classic version of the SJ, in base it really is only ever useful for Tailgunners, or someone riding a Havoc. I have NEVER seen someone make good use of the SJ in base in any roles that wasn't the above. You can't even use it in sneak capping to get past turret farms or anything, because the energy drain is just too great to make any form of half-sensible getaway possible, and disk-jumping won't do you much good when playing base.
Personally I've found the SJ more useful as a tool to avoid the large base turrets on some maps than as "a heavy cloaking pack" - If I can sneak more than a few times all the way into the enemy base without getting shot by way of SJ, it means more that the other team is populated by a bunch of clueless idiots rather than the SJ being overpowered (again, see above why it isn't). In which case, it wouldn't be much of a difference if I'd use an epack or shield pack instead anyway.
Thats why I said that enemy is easy to notice from used armor. Do not stare just the red triangles but armors as well. The missing triangle ain't anykind 100% sure, because if your teammate has sensor jammer pack ON, it hides own team members on that area as well, so only way to be 100% sure who is enemy and who ain't, is looking the tribe armor. (this is one reason why many use Bioderm tribe, because it is harder to notice. I do not understand why didn't Dynamix set Bioderms in first place as own tribe like Blood Eagle and Diamond Sword etc. Maybe idea was to give idea of some bioderms being loyal to slavemaster tribe...?) But as on classic, it is again made easier than should be, and lowered the need of thinking what is happening around.
Tribes 2 was never meant to be a solo-players wet dream like Classic mod is designed to be. It was meant to be a full teamplay game, what really needed skilled players who could play together very complex strategies dynamically and following orders right away, without caring kills or points, everyone doing all kind jobs what was needed to do, ordered by the leaders. But that was it's biggest flaw, those skilled players came and went because there were too much CS players who wanted only speed and solo playing and were whining all the time how the vehicles were too powerfull etc. Many just came to show that they can be World #1 clans on T2 if wanted and then went to other games to do the same.
I used many times Sensor Jammer pack very successfully, even on capping flag, but usually I didn't try to do things alone (take a shrike/bike, grab a flag, get back to vehicle and go home, like on classic/get absurd speed what is faster than missiles or blaster and only weapon what could stop you is laser, if someone would just be right behind you on straight line because of LoS and your speed) but using teammates to co-attack and we passed flags and vehicles to each other. Someone disturbing enemy someway just the one, two seconds and things went much easier. Teamwork was always the key to success, not skills of one or two player.
I saw years ago great gameplay from many skilled players, but now there just ain't those needs anymore, thanks to classic. You can mostly only see frag- and pointhunters. Even on clan matches.
It is overpowered because you do not need skills to control the pack. Would you call Cloak or Energy packs needing skills if they would have endless effect? I dont think so...
The bases, maps etc are designed in such way that there is wanted range between entrence and the gens, in example. The range is such that you can not just go inside and move totally jammed/cloaked between entrance and the objective. There was given a change to player ruin it's mission by not controlling the pack.
The packs idea was to give somekind advantage over other packs when activated and few only had always ON, mode, like Energy pack.
Wonder why the Sensor Jammer pack got sound when activated, like the cloaker pack activated... ;-) (and now it ain't needed... and those blinking lights etc because it was modified for base rapers what is one of the wanted easiest jobs on T2 Classic).
You sure about that? I'm almost 100% sure that teammates wearing a SJ will show the green triangle as usual, and it'd be wierd if it'd be any different when you turn it on, as AFAIK technically (game wise) the only thing that should change with the pack on is that the jamming range increases from 0 meters (eg the player only) to a 15 meter radius circle.
Well, I guess I could just test it myself for giggles next time I'm on.
I don't really see why this doesn't apply to classic, but whatever - I digress, there's enough base vs classic shitfests on this forum already and I'd rather this thread not turn into another one.
Maybe you could demonstrate or give actual examples (through words) in which kind exact situations you find the base version of the SJ actually useful, besides something uselessly vague, because I too can say something inane like the ammo pack being great when capping and it'll be about equally credible.
You don't need any "skills" to deploy turrets or inventories either, or any skills to use an ammo pack - It's just there. Does that make them also overpowered?
(Also, the epack effect is endless and permanent! You don't need any skills to control it either - Just hold down your mouse button and you can jet further than the enemy!
OMG IMBA nerf epack plz it should only allow you to charge energy faster 5 full cycles before running out of "ammo" and being useless!. Clearly this would make it need much more skill to use and therefore the game would be much better since it would need more SKILLZ to play)
Just because something doesn't take some arbitary form of "skill" to use doesn't mean it's overpowered, just as long as there are viable alternative choices.
You can say "the classic sensor jammer is easier to use than most other offensive packs", and you'd be more or less correct. But if you say "the classic sensor jammer is overpowered", you're implying that if you use anything else than a sensor jammer pack in the game, you'd be at an immidiate and constant disadvantage against any other people who are using it.
Obviously, this isn't the case.
It's hard enough as it is to sneak into bases with the SJ in classic, and nigh impossible to do it base unless you're playing a against a team of blind idiots.
This can be exemplified by the simple fact that no one in base ever uses the SJ outside of TGing, while plenty of people use the SJ in classic to various degrees of success. Clearly, it means that people consider the classic version of the SJ an actually a worthwhile gameplay option, where as in base the negative traits of the pack render it so limited in usage scope that almost no player bothers himself with it.
I'll let you decide yourself which is a more desirable outcome from a gameplay perspective.
the sj pack was never used in base because it sucked ass. why the fuck would you want to use a pack that's only legitimate function was to stop turrets shooting at you - WHEN it's activated?? that's stupid. why not just use a shield pack, which will absorb all the damage and give you a dozen other functions with it anyways. sj in base was garbage, that's why it was changed.
again, just stop with your inane bullshit. You have no idea what you're talking about, you've never played on any decent team, and you're just making up information to suit your own agenda. "Many just came to show that they can be World #1 clans on T2 if wanted and then went to other games to do the same. " That's fucking bullshit. The best teams in tribes have always been composed mostly of exclusive tribes players that played other games casually. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, there wasn't a lot of crossing between players that played games like UT, q3, cs, and tribes. that's just bullshit.
second of all, classic is not a solo game, and if you can't understand that, you're beyond retarded. base had a very low skill cap; tons of people could get very good at base with very little effort, and, strangely enough, it made the strategies less dynamic. You could come up with all the super complex strategies and tactics for maps you want, at the end of the day, any team that's not half retarded that has elf guns is going to stop you 95% of the time. Base matches ended up being more wars of attrition, where teams would run timed attacks every 5 minutes, while twiddling their thumbs the rest of the time, and get stopped 95% of the time. it was fucking stupid then, and it's fucking stupid now. There's a ton of dynamicism with classic now that the skill curves are insanely high. There's half a dozen ways to run each different map depending on the strengths of your players, and you can use different strategies based on your teams' strengths and weaknesses vs. the enemy teams'.
oh, and you won't find a lot of point whoring in matches, and if you do, it's going to be by a team that's probably getting stomped pretty hard by a team that pays attention to the flag and objectives.
hey buddy, the energy pack doesn't have to be activated either. must be overpowered!
shit, if any packs are overpowered, it's the epack or shield pack. the reason they gave sj a passive function and cloak pack a boost in effectiveness is because they sucked in base and were basically worthless.