Automatic Voting Script (CHEAT)

Here is two account suggestion to get remove from master server (and get IP blocked as well).

The problem ain't just these cheaters, but the script itself what automatically votes next map. And it disallows other players to vote cheaters off or any other map.

I attach small recording of the actions, two players using it.

Right away when the next voting is possible, the script auto-votes and any user cant vote anything.

At least Goon server admins, do something about this...

Comments

  • First off, accounts cannot be banned from the account server.
    Secondly, wrong forums (http://www.goonhaven.org/forums/ would be the right place).
    And finally, not a support issue.

    Moved to General Discussion
  • Also, when we (the GH admins) catch people using these scripts, we typically ban as soon as possible. It's unacceptable in every way.

    The problem players have been taken care of.
  • First off, accounts cannot be banned from the account server.

    Well, that should be possible like on the original T2 master server.
    Secondly, wrong forums (http://www.goonhaven.org/forums/ would be the right place).

    Well, that was for a) Information for all T2 players (thats why here) b) question was about the account banning too, so the correct place was this. c) I suggested people to turn to goon heaven IRC channel to ask admins to kick/ban right away.
    And finally, not a support issue.

    Well, here aren't better group for these. And because it was question about master server and cheats what should be possible to disallow on server side, I could not see reason to general or other groups.
    Moved to General Discussion

    Well, if better there than nowhere ;-)
  • First off, accounts cannot be banned from the account server.

    Well, that should be possible like on the original T2 master server.
    No it should not be possible.
    In addition, I don't recall ever hearing of anyone being banned globally from T2.
  • First off, accounts cannot be banned from the account server.

    Well, that should be possible like on the original T2 master server.
    No it should not be possible.
    In addition, I don't recall ever hearing of anyone being banned globally from T2.
    Global banning was more of a hush-hush thing, from what I've heard.
  • First off, accounts cannot be banned from the account server.

    Well, that should be possible like on the original T2 master server.
    No it should not be possible.
    In addition, I don't recall ever hearing of anyone being banned globally from T2.

    That happened for cheaters who did continued using cheats on other servers and enough server admins notified it to master server upkeepers. The CD-key got removed from master server and you needed to buy a new game. It was exactly same thing what Valve started doing later with Steam accounts. If you cheated, your CD-key was marked first or removed so you needed to buy games again. Valve is just very straight about their policy against cheating, if you get marked as cheater or account removed, you can not do anything, because Valve does not return those accounts to original state.

    Same thing should be possible on T2 master-server. 1) Mark the user account as warned about cheater (not possible because we do not have source code to the T2 what would allow example the colored C front of the name. 2) Ban the account and email, so they need to generate new account with more complex way.

    The simple IP block does not help much, because you can get a new IP on some countries very easily even with ADSL/Cable.

    On T2 you just did not hear much the master server banning because there were not so much cheats public knowledge in the first place, like there is for CS and other Valve games. And T2 did not have lots of players after few years of starting.

    I have not never actually understanded well the reason to build very secure user account with such encrypting, but same way blocking master server admin not to be possible to remove/block account at all. It does not mean that master server admin should be possible to find password for the account, just the account name.

    T2 was just one of the greatest anti-cheat game in early days because it was one of big games what used CD-key storing to master server (not to forget games like Diablo and Warcraft etc) what made very clear that you can not play game without paying from it and you should not cheat.

    T2 late years there was the anti-cheat program what was needed to play it on most servers. Dont know is it now included to TribesNext version or not?
  • Let the server ops decide who plays and who doesn't.
  • Same thing should be possible on T2 master-server. 1) Mark the user account as warned about cheater (not possible because we do not have source code to the T2 what would allow example the colored C front of the name. 2) Ban the account and email, so they need to generate new account with more complex way.
    You're about 9 months too late to be dictating how the account system should be designed. We had open input and discussion as to how the system should be implemented given the resources available. Most of the people were more interested in a pissing contest than technical design though (because they had no clue what it takes to build something like this).
    On T2 you just did not hear much the master server banning because there were not so much cheats public knowledge in the first place, like there is for CS and other Valve games. And T2 did not have lots of players after few years of starting.
    Clearly you weren't playing T2 at the right times or on the right servers. Cheating was rampant in the game about 3 years after release, and master server bans were non-existent after Dynamix was dissolved. The only thing you could get the support team to do was to free your CD-key and delete an account if your account became "broken" (unable to use t-mail, and/or browser capabilities). The "administration" team could barely keep the IRC server and community services running, much less fixing or banning accounts on the request of server administrators (who could easily be non-legitimate people pretending to be server admins).
    I have not never actually understanded well the reason to build very secure user account with such encrypting, but same way blocking master server admin not to be possible to remove/block account at all. It does not mean that master server admin should be possible to find password for the account, just the account name.
    Exactly. You do not understand the reasons, nor do you understand the technical design. Maybe you should try to understand how the system works and is designed before questioning why I can and cannot do certain things.

    For one: let's try a particularly striking example. Open your TN version of the game to the login screen. Unplug the network cable from your computer or turn off the wireless adapter, so you cannot access the Internet. Enter your password and log in. You'll notice that you're able to log in without any problems (assuming you enter your password correctly). So, now... reconnect to your network, get a list of servers and try to join one. You'll notice that you're able to join. How is that possible?

    No idea?

    I'll give you a clue: you don't talk to the account server when you log in; in fact, you don't talk to any computer over the network as part of log in.

    So now you must be thinking: "But how does the server I join know I am who I logged in as, and not some imposter?". Perhaps, you think the server you join talks to the account server to verify your identity. It doesn't; game servers only talk to people playing/connecting to them, and it sends pings to the list server saying "Hey! I'm alive!". How is that possible?

    Maybe if you're smart enough to understand how that's possible, I'll take your suggestions more seriously.

    Here's another striking example: the account server has experienced roughly 6 hours of downtime since the launch of TribesNext on January 2nd. That downtime had absolutely no effect on people logging in or playing on servers.

    So, why was it designed this way? Because I don't host this game on enterprise level hardware with 99.9999% uptime guarantees (which is less than 32 seconds of downtime a year). Such hosting would be upwards of tens of thousands of dollars per year. Since launch, I have maintained only 99.66% uptime.

    I designed the system such that the deactivation of the account server has absolutely no effect on people with existing accounts. It doesn't matter if the deactivation is unintentional (network interruption, extended power interruption), or if it is induced (denial of service attack, legal take-down notice); anyone with an account will be able to log in and play.

    But, by all means, if you don't like it; go build your own. Or, if that's too hard, fix the exploits that people are using. In this case, something to limit vote initiation by people who have already started votes could be done in under 10 lines of code.
  • In fact, blocking of the vote spam script can be done by modifying a single line of code.
  • You're about 9 months too late to be dictating how the account system should be designed. We had open input and discussion as to how the system should be implemented given the resources available.

    Well, I am not dictating no one... I just said that it _should_ be possible.
    I were not here 9 months ago, I have not even played T2 since 2007.
    So sorry if I did not read the TribesNext project until few months ago.
    Clearly you weren't playing T2 at the right times or on the right servers. Cheating was rampant in the game about 3 years after release, and master server bans were non-existent after Dynamix was dissolved.

    Well, then I can say that maybe I was playing on right servers since release (first day) to 2007, when I did not see cheating as such problem that it was not possible to control. And I just know that there was account deletions then and even after Dynamix was dispatched. But the "wanted" T2 went down already even before that.
    Exactly. You do not understand the reasons, nor do you understand the technical design. Maybe you should try to understand how the system works and is designed before questioning why I can and cannot do certain things.

    Seems that you take everything what I say very personally like I would be insulting your baby. Sorry, but now I must say that the master-server design is not well done if the master-server admin can not control accounts at all, but is locked off from them totally because of encryption. I will check out the specs and designs if you will give a link to it. But so far it just sounds too odd for the gameplay and community.
    But, by all means, if you don't like it; go build your own. Or, if that's too hard, fix the exploits that people are using. In this case, something to limit vote initiation by people who have already started votes could be done in under 10 lines of code.

    I readed what you typed and all was very clear. Tribes Next does not have a master server, only a account server. There is the difference. But, because it seems you really toke it so personally, you couldn't just say it straight without teasing. And the design has good points, but still it is odd way to do it.

    There is multiple ways to do a "master-server" what would tell to other servers is account X marked as cheater or not. It does not need to be realtime updated, only once a week would be enough. I was not expecting that you would have any enterprise level system. Master-server could even be simple as old 486 computer running somewhere basement with decent networking. Because we are not talking any kind heavy network load unless it would be designed to be such or very CPU hungry because of server-side encryption/decryption. But seems that you toke only one player-perspective account and not the whole community about possibility to have a easily controlled accounts.

    I know it ain't easy to hack the T2 working without source files to allow other servers etc. And I am not demanding - or dictating as you put it - it to be done right now for such client-master-server as I suggested it. But it _should_ be possible to be done such way if just wanted. this I say just as network engineer.

    But this conversation is over by my end, because if developers answers others by bitching, it is clear that conversation can not continue anywhere good direction.

    PS. Clearly many were 9 months late about suggesting to add such features what would not increase the servers network/hardware demands, but allowing better central to build community, so all servers admins would not have to do all management. And all players would know that continued cheating does not mean bans from one specific server, but from whole game as well. And they will not return ruining others play on other servers, without going trough time taking and complex registration time after time.

    PPS. After that I will continue sending all reports just to server admins, because the "master-server" seems not have any control at all to game itself, because if such it was designed.
  • Do you really want a central Tribes 2 dictator controlling everything?
  • PPS. After that I will continue sending all reports just to server admins, because the "master-server" seems not have any control at all to game itself, because if such it was designed.
    This is the only intelligent line of his whole post.

    It would be incredibly easy to set up a central server that contains a "global" ban list, and have multiple servers use it. The beauty of Thyth's design is that it is completely up to the server owners - and no one else - if they want their server to be a part of it.
  • The server was designed as I thought it should be designed, with input from other players (a topic of about 800 posts debating the various possibilities). It was a clear consensus by the large hosts (and the communities they represented) of the time that they did not want central control over which accounts are accessible on which servers.

    They didn't want me as a central dictator, so I made it decentralized, and ultimately democratic.

    Such a centralized list DOES increase network demands. There are other logistical problems as well. How do you decide when a player has cheated? Do you trust the servers to give you accurate information? Would you trust a list of cheaters generated by a different server? What if a server admin decided to be malicious, and sent in requests into the listing system for players that are legitimate (that perhaps the server admin didn't like)?

    Certainly you don't expect it to be a manual process to sort out the number of requests we would get per day.

    It's not a primary responsibility of the account server. It's ancillary at most, especially since servers are free to ignore any such list, should it be created (all of the scripts are open source for that reason). Such a list also doesn't need to be initiated or approved by the central authority either.

    If you want to create such a list; go ahead. Nothing is stopping you from writing a script to share ban lists between servers (except that doing it properly is not as easy as you imagine). But, don't be presumptuous enough to say what the system should and should not be able to do. It isn't designed as a networked system, as much as it is a method for generating mathematical proof of identity.
  • What if a server admin decided to be malicious, and sent in requests into the listing system for players that are legitimate (that perhaps the server admin didn't like)?

    This would have been happening every damn day.
  • tn != valve
  • edited June 2009
    Hi,

    I'd like to get in on the action. Can I desperately make up things about dynamix modifying users accounts on the hush hush too?

    Did you guys know that if you got 30 headshots on a map 3 maps in a row they gave you a free account? Yeah but it was hush hush so not many people did.

    anywayz, goon haven is a pretty nice server. Horrible map rotation though
  • I don't know why, but I just love reading heated debates. Thanks for cracking me up. Also if anyone made a central list that players could refer to, I think it would be a great resource. If it was implemented into the lobby where you could send to the server via the right-click context menu, I think you could track how many times a user was reported and log it onto the list. There would be no need to do manual checking of the reports because the server hosts could check it themselves. Please don't shut my idea down to much if you don't like it. Just take it as a suggestion. I personally don't care if it was implemented or not.
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