Open Response to a PM Regarding "Cheaters on Goon Haven"

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Comments

  • That and some cards, drivers, and settings will render deeper into the fog rather than just cutting off all images at the fog.
  • It's interesting how most of the people in this community double their efforts when defending someone who has been accused of cheating, especially when a demo obviously shows they're cheating. It seems to me that ignorance is the reason for the actions of many of you, because I'm sure many of you are innocent and have never cheated before, so you wouldn't know what to look for when cheating. Yes, the video is vague but unfortunately an admin kicked him before I could record more footage. This was only five minutes of me observing him, and I got this activity which is (to me, obvious) showing how he has perma IFF's and he's looking at a hill because he sees someone's perma IFF.

    It's convenient that this community is mostly full of innocent players who have never cheated a day in their Tribes2 life, because you try to defend odd behaviors of the obvious hm2 users by using legitimate tactics that could be used, but most likely aren't. If I wanted to cheat, this thread would definitely encourage me to do so because I'd know that I could play smart enough with cheats that everyone would defend my innocence.
  • It's interesting how you resort to defending your ego instead of discussing the matter.
  • one time i killed a man in cold blood, and the police didn't even make this big a deal about it.
  • I really dont see anyone defending anyone here some people may be trying to give explantions of possiblities of what may have happened.Like I said I am not here to prove you right or wrong.I have seen though and watched things in tribes 2 that sometimes I couldnt explain.Some pretty amazing things in comp and pub play I would hate to think they were all cheats and doubt if they are.I have just seen the word cheat thrown about to easily IMO.

    I dont know how many times I have heard a cloaker say I was cloaked and you shot and killed me your a hacker.I have had people tell me that and I have to explain look you might be cloaked but I can see your footsteps on the ground or I have my music turned off and my effects sound is all the way up.Maybe just maybe your not just a good cloaker and you waited to the last second to turn your pack off.I dont know about anybody else but when I hear the cloak I turn around and fire and ask questions later.

    You maybe right he may be cheating and honestly I f..king hate cheaters.maybe it is easier for you to tell since you might have used hm2 at one time or know more about it. To be honest though I would rather have a community of people that were full of innocent players than ones that use hm2 or any other crappy scripts that are out there.
  • If you don't have music or voice comms running, you can easily hear a cloaker. Just look around and if you can't see him via dust or footprints start chaining the place till you do. But yeah, a simple script like autopoints might be what all the fuss is about rather than hm2.
  • Not everyone has had run-ins with this player, you assume because it happened to you that it happened to everyone else.

    You list one... "ONE" short rec and expect everyone to feel the same way you do. As I said; what you presented would earn the player more attention, it is my experience that those that jump to "cheat conclusions" without sufficient evidence do more harm than good.

    If fact; unsubstanciated cheat conclusions... have done more to kill T2 than actual cheaters ever did! Once it starts; before you know it, everyone is pointing a finger at everybody.

    The quickest way to identify a cheater is to kill the fool in game! When he runs away crying for Mommy, starts votes to kick you after you killed him with his uber laser rifle... nine times out of ten... he's a douchebag cheater!
  • edited March 2009
    This is true. He's already demonstrated his tendency to jump to conclusions without considering all the possibilities (mainly because he doesn't know much about command circuit and task waypoints).

    I don't recall ever accusing anyone of cheating. When someone seems to be really good, it's just more motivation to improve my game. Hell, I didn't get good in a day, yet I got accused for hm2 quite often. Of course, I have no idea how hm2 actually works.

    Besides, even if some players cheat you know they can just make another account.
  • This is true. He's already demonstrated his tendency to jump to conclusions without considering all the possibilities (mainly because he doesn't know much about command circuit and task waypoints).

    I don't recall ever accusing anyone of cheating. When someone seems to be really good, it's just more motivation to improve my game. Hell, I didn't get good in a day, yet I got accused for hm2 quite often. Of course, I have no idea how hm2 actually works.

    Besides, even if some players cheat you know they can just make another account.

    No, you're right. Tmann was probably using the command circuit.
  • tmann seems like a newb to me; I highly doubt he has any idea what the CC is. Cheats are much more likely.
  • tmann seems like a newb to me; I highly doubt he has any idea what the CC is. Cheats are much more likely.
    Wow I mean after that expert opinion it must be true after all he is the Mikey Jordan of tribes or was that Alex Rodriguez?

    Back to the original subject of this post since we now have wandered way off course.It really doesnt matter if You like the|Sniper or not maybe this should have been something that should have been handled in private after all From the title of this post it was a PM between two people.Posting this type of thing in a open forum tends to cause open flamage and I think the moderators here are trying to tone that down a bit.Something like this seems to only add fuel to the fire which I hope was not intended.
  • Great reference! It takes a real superstar to notice the connection between these two occurances ...

    Posting this into the public not only exposes the player but the fact that such cheats may or may not exist. It also informs the general public on this forum and opens discussion of such matters. Belive it or not, this is called education for those without knowledge.
  • I think it was right to post this publicly. People keep making wild accusations of cheats in private, including naming players.

    The open response serves two purposes:
    * It let's people know that we need demos and that we don't ban people based on wild accusations.
    * It discourages people from making wild accusations in private.

    I strongly believe that you shouldn't be able to attempt to destroy the reputations of other players through a PM. If you have evidence of cheating, post it publicly. If you don't want to post it publicly because you don't really have any evidence...well, we've saved everyone a lot of time and the reputation of an innocent player.
  • edited March 2009
    I feel that this will be my last repley under this thread due partly to my belief, the problem goes deeper than just goon. For me It's clear that some of the things that go on, on goon I personlly find unacceptable as a place to play "Tribes2". Fine that's how they roll, then that's how they roll. Play on Players!



    The reason I commented on this theread was not to try to bring down the TRIBESNEXT community, but rather play an active part in it. Is this a community where, what you thought was an easy kill, and take note of
    who that person was. And later find out that , "guess that guy wasn't an easy kill, but rather a "not using cheats" kill. Because he wasn't using a shitload of cheats and/or creative post release programming. And not comment?
    Not add info that may be helpful in clearing up the situation? Let the cornered cheats do the usaul "TRIBES CHEATER" damage control campaign ( i'm surprised they hav'nt used the "heehee Auto-aim deflection" yet), and not comment?

    If so maybe this player is gonna roll on out. And maybe anyone looking for a place to play TRIBES, which aint cheat or be cheated should roll on out and not even roll in.
  • For me It's clear that some of the things that go on, on goon I personlly find unacceptable as a place to play "Tribes2".

    I'd like to hear this list.
  • Somehow, you lost me...

    I've heard a lot of cheat accusations in the past and made incorrect conclusions on a few myself. Then there were people who were cheating, accusing others of cheating because they (the cheaters) got owned! What I found was, almost everything I thought was impossible I accomplished with a little dedicated practice and luck. So I'm reluctant to call anything a cheat without seing some evidence. Just because someone got a great score doesn't make them a cheater.

    Some here have been playing this game for years, even while the game was on a respirator with a couple pub servers. Not everyone is a noob or has rusty skills either. If you have suspicions, make some demos and let people see your perspective. Just don't rely on one demo unless you captured something that's outrageously suspicious.
  • I think it was right to post this publicly. People keep making wild accusations of cheats in private, including naming players.

    The open response serves two purposes:
    * It let's people know that we need demos and that we don't ban people based on wild accusations.
    * It discourages people from making wild accusations in private.

    I strongly believe that you shouldn't be able to attempt to destroy the reputations of other players through a PM. If you have evidence of cheating, post it publicly. If you don't want to post it publicly because you don't really have any evidence...well, we've saved everyone a lot of time and the reputation of an innocent player.
    All well stated teratos cheaters should be made public and as stated before I hate cheats.The problem with this is that first someone was accused of cheating without any proof just someones opinion.By then most of damage has already been done the 35 seconds of the recording shows better evidence,The opinins of he looks like a newb or sucks at everything else dont cut it.

    The thing that I think should have been handled in private was the letter the| sniper sent to thebeaz .It was sent in a PM which I take as either private message or personnel message which I think might have been better handled that way.Then we could have spared the forums alot of drama and what not.Drama sells though as you can tell by all the reads and posts.And these are the days of are tribes.
  • All well stated teratos cheaters should be made public and as stated before I hate cheats.The problem with this is that first someone was accused of cheating without any proof just someones opinion.By then most of damage has already been done the 35 seconds of the recording shows better evidence,The opinins of he looks like a newb or sucks at everything else dont cut it.
    Well I wouldn't expect you to know or even understand this, but determining the overall talent/skill level of a player is a crucial part of determining whether or not they are using cheats. Based on what I have seen of this guy over a long period of time, he's a bad player. Being a bad player makes it incredibly unlikely that he used any of the legit means to see a player through a hill 250m away (especially since there is no sensor net in that area of that map - someone would have had to deploy sensors on that hill). Considering how pathetically easy it is to obtain HM2, the odds are astronomical that he was using perma-IFFs instead.
    On the other hand, I wouldn't ban the guy based on the aforementioned evidence. I'd require 100% certainty for that; this only brings me to about 90%.

    Anyway, this thread makes a good case for not publicizing demos of cheaters. If everyone who sees it doesn't have the slightest clue what to even look for to determine if someone is cheating, it's really futile and does more harm that good.
  • Don't be a cheater-enabler Kryand.
  • Hmmm... I could swear I read several posts; here or on the-construct, that the tribesnext patch effectively nuked HM2?
  • HM2 still works on TribesNext (unfortunately). We're gonna implement anti-cheat measures, soon.
  • That would be much appreciated!!!
  • edited March 2009
    hell must have frozen over ;D I actually agree with some of what kryand is saying.I personally only know a few things about HM2 since I have never used it.Most was explained to me by a person I knew who was a great scripter and helped work on and improve a few mods by the name of cold dagger.

    Making the demos public was only a bad idea only because of the Utube quality sucked for me however It did seem like the guy might be up to something so maybe he might be a player to look at more closely.A game demo recording of more quality might have shown me more.Like kryand said though before I hang someone I wanna make sure he is 100% guilty.
  • Maybe someone could post what to look for as far as determining if someone is cheating. What are the characteristic advantages a player gets from using HM2 and other cheat scripts?
    • An (somewhat effective) aimbot for shocklance and sniper rifle. This aimbot is good or bad depending on the operator.
    • Perma-IFFs (they know where everyone is at all times).
    • They can manipulate fog so they can see farther or see less to save FPS.
    • (If the user is smart enough to spoof CRC) They can implement custom shapes that alert them to mines with a floating diamond. This diamond is also color coded to packs so you know what pack someone is wearing. Snipers get a nice, big halo so you can see them real well. Flags are replaced with big flowers so you can see them real well.
    • You can see cloakers on servers that use setCloaked() instead of startFade() to cloak.
    • They can manipulate fog so they can see farther or see less to save FPS.

    They can use no fog. You can add fog with the slider in the settings, so I hardly think that's a cheat.
    • They can manipulate fog so they can see farther or see less to save FPS.

    They can use no fog. You can add fog with the slider in the settings, so I hardly think that's a cheat.
    They can manipulate the slider further or less than the game's limits (which is 0.5 to 1 I think). Someone with HappyMod could manipulate it to something like 10.
  • I dont know if this is a cheat or not, but in either case it seems odd. There was a guy that was running around with no enemy or freindly triagular icon over his head. He started shooting me after everyone was through playing and the map was about over. I dont know when this would have come out as a cheat....other than making a player think twice about shooting him, thats all it does. Then angain, any player whos played a while along with noobs would just gun him down anyway.....as I did..........AHAAHAHHAHAHAH!
  • Umm... sensor jammer pack?
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