Tribes: Ascend will now be PC-focused
Consoles get the shaft for once in their lives, probably because it would be goddamn impossible to play a real Tribes game on a controller.
Consoles get the shaft for once in their lives, probably because it would be goddamn impossible to play a real Tribes game on a controller.
"Almost" being the key word.
Tribes 2 Armor: 3 to 5 "in-hand weapons" + laser designator, grenade slot, mine slot, pack slot, health-kit slot = 8 to 10 slots by HiRez math.
It's CoD with jetpacks. The only reason anyone here remotely cares is because HiRez bought the Tribes name, and is using it on a game. HiRez implicitly hinted in the beginning that they would be basing the game on Tribes 2. That was the hook to get early PR and interest in the project.
Now that they've demonstrated that they're more interested in making a wide appeal FPS in the style of Halo and Call of Duty, without listening to feedback from the community that kept the Tribes genre alive, what's the point in even thinking about it? It's "Tribes" only in name, and if it was called anything else, nobody would be bothering to worry about it.
Maybe HiRez will surprise us. If and not until then, forget that "Tribes" is part of the title. Let it stand on the (dubious) merits of final gameplay, not the merits of the name.
Base+ mod didn't appear because Dynamix wanted to revert Tribes to its intended vision; it appeared because they wanted to prepare us for the future of shitty Tribes games.
Variant mod didn't appear because some asshole decided to say "fuck you" to Tribes players everywhere; it appeared because new players couldn't find their way around a Tribes style of game. If the existence of HV is any indication, they took the right approach.
Vengeance mod didn't appear because some TW people decided to directly design a game; it appeared because Irrational got the idea that "Tribes = Fast" and they didn't have a goddamn clue how to design a multiplayer game.
Ascend mod isn't appearing because Hi-Rez wants to make Call of Duty with jetpacks; they actually believe it will appeal to the masses who have been exposed to games like CoD and Halo for far too long.
It's been happening since the beginning of the series, and it will continue to happen into Universe. Once they drop the Tribes license and another company picks it up, it'll happen again.
ta = doody5?
The loadout restrictions are there to "simplify" the experience. The assertion is that inventory management is too complicated for players to figure out, so players will be denied a choice. That, and, players have to "earn" or buy more of these pre-cast loadouts as they play. There is a valid point that inventory management is a complicated aspect of the game in Tribes 2, but there are better ways to resolve it to simplicity than taking away almost all choice (e.g. have sane default templates, rather than the mass of barely distinguishable ones provided by the game currently).
The lack of user hosted servers, user created maps, and modifications is such a regression. And for what? HiRez claims they'll have greater control over content, be better able to guarantee an experience that's uniform, stop cheating, and so forth. Some people actually buy into these arguments despite their inability to stand up to scrutiny.
In the end, despite the claims that they are soliciting and listening to feedback, HiRez is not so subtly saying: "We know better than you. You'll like our walled garden. Our way or the highway."
That is far worse than was done by Tribes 2 Base. In Tribes 2, it was corrected in the creation of Classic. If HiRez does the same in their game, it will probably still be successful by their measurements, and there won't be a community effort to unlock greater potential.
I'll reserve judgement on their new "core gameplay" when it's released. My statement about why they are getting even a modicum of attention from the Tribes community is still spot on.
In other words, their target audience is the masses of new players, not the tiny Tribes community. Who gives a shit what Tribes players want if the majority of their profit will come from new players who will enjoy the game, as opposed to the small number of angry veterans whose demands will turn the game into an unprofitable mess? Ultra-niche doesn't work in gaming.
They want easy to play, low entry barriers, masses of new players, big profit. It's called business.
A true successor to Tribes 2 would result in modest intial sales, followed by years of community activity with no profit. The whole idea of creating a one-shot quality game hoping for massive initial sales simply doesn't work anymore. Either you keep pumping out games one after another, or you create games that increasingly profit over time.
That's why there are more than one Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Crysis. They can't financially survive as one-shot games. On the other hand, F2P's and MMORPG's increasingly profit over time. There's no way for a revamped Tribes 2 to survive today's landscape without losing money.
I have to agree. If the game turns out to be as described here it won't last very long past its initial release excitement. The early PC games recognized you have to build a community in more ways than just sales. You build a community by allowing a certain amount of "freedom" to fans. The game as described appears to ignore that in favor of all benefits to the company.
Yes, agreed, "earning" or "buying" loadouts is not something I have an interest in doing. Tribes was not about this and the real strength of the Tribes style of game was in another direction. To me it was about that magical evolution of multiple players working as a team that really set Tribes above the rest of the PC games. Earning or buying loadouts seems more oriented towards the individual player rather than the "team" style of thinking. I do think we have lost some of that early magic in the Tribes style games but the idea of earning and buying really goes the wrong direction.
Oh yes.....thats a definite agreement there. For games to be successful you have to allow fans to host their own servers, create their own maps, and to at least some extent allow for the creation of mods, at least those that mods don't affect security or exploit the core game.
The Tribes games have done well on 2 of those areas, servers and mods, and half well on the mapping area. Only half well in mapping because of the lack of an adequate download system which in turn has affected the quality and vitality of the mapping community around Tribes.
To completely cut off those abilities will guarantee a relatively short life for any game.
Yes. I also would add that from my point of view as a Linux user that its way past time for gaming companies to recognize that its no longer a Windows only world. We are slowly but surely becoming a mixed OS environment. I have so far seen nothing with regards to Mac and Linux support being mentioned for this. For me, that makes it a total non starter. It might be easy for one to sit in a Windows only environment and think that is all there is so why bother supporting those other 2 platforms, but, no matter whose numbers you believe they all point to a steady shrinking of market share for the Windows platform. Yes, its slow and its small....but its a steady trend. Today, if you're ignoring Linux and Mac....you're ignoring millions of people. Given that this game is barely managing to fill one server out of approx. 40 HiRez should be finding ways to add those potential millions to the mix. Not only is that ignoring potential supporting players, that is ignoring those who also might be running servers for your game or creating maps or whatever.
But beyond that, also as a Linux user and long time gamer, I have grown really sick of the big game companies just plain screwing the pooch by continuing to follow the path of getting users to buy the latest so called great game then turn around and totally ignore that game in favor of whatever new game comes along. That constant cycle of "latest and greatest" instead of finding ways to support their fan base and still make some sort of income from a previously released game.
At this point there are 3 viable Tribes style games. Tribes 1, Tribes 2 thru TribesNext and Legends. Each has its advantages. Each offers a wide variety of choice to players. I could be wrong but based on what I have read so far this new attempt is off the mark. For me as a Linux user, server admin, and active mapper its not even on the radar.
To be clear, Legends has never implemented my "changes". I was not involved with the development of the game nor did I have any power to implement my "changes". The way the game plays is the decision of the Legends Dev Team and always has been. I have in the past never had any influence in their decisions. The only area I have helped in is by turning in various bug reports for bugs/errors that had been overlooked and that were obvious issues that were to the determent of the game and would have been something that would have needed fixing in any game.
More recently I was asked to step in and help with mapping cleanup on the unreleased version but again, other than bug reports, I have had zero input as to core game play and direction.....nor do I want any input there unless they ask me for it.
Any "changes" I have made to Legends were done in the Tribes time honored spirit of modding and were done on my own servers and were in no way connected to the actual core Legends game nor are they implemented any where else but on my servers.
I have been playing Tribes since it was originally released, running servers since then, and mapping since I became involved with Legends.
That being said I believe all 3 games have their advantages and disadvantages as follows:
Tribes 1: Windows natively, Linux via Wine (good)
Tribes 2 : Windows natively Linux natively (but now obsolete) Linux via Wine (fair)
Legends (old version): Windows natively Linux natively
Legends (unreleased version): Windows natively Linux natively
Tribes 1: Good physics even if somewhat accidental due to the community added skiing.
Tribes 2: Weak Physics (boggy and slow)
Legends (old version): Good similar to Tribes 1 in feel
Legends (unreleased version): Very Good (still similar to Tribes 1 but with a bit more snap)
Advantage Legends (I understand this is something each player has a personal preference to. I lean towards the feel I was used to in Tribes 1 and Legends feels like that to me but improved .)
Tribes 1: Very Nice
Tribes 2: Good but somewhat stick like at a distance.
Legends (old version): Weak but workable
Legends (unreleased version): Better, being worked on.
Advantage Tribes 1
Tribes 1: Adequate but dated
Tribes 2: Adequate but lighting direction completely broken
Legends (old version): Good, lighting directions actually work for mappers.
Legends (unreleased version): Very Good, benefits from newer version of Torque.
Advantage Legends, especially the unreleased version.
Hard to say here. All 3 are pretty similar in execution. Other than a few fancier weapons from one to another the basic weapons are a wash.
Tribes 1: Never mapped there, no opinion, no custom map downloads
Tribes 2: Limited, spawn graphs required, weak lighting system, bad looking terrain textures but many nice interior textures, bot support, no custom map downloads.
Legends (old version): Assignable spawn points, working lighting system, good terrain textures, decent interior textures with not as many "artsy" ones as Tribes 2, no bot support, working custom map download system.
Legends (unreleased version): Assignable spawn points, working lighting system that is much better than any of the above, good terrain textures, decent interior textures with not as many "artsy" ones as Tribes 2, no bot support, working custom map download system.
Advantage Legends and especially because it has a working download system and lighting system (with exception of bot support)
Tribes 1: Built in and good
Tribes 2: Built in and better than Tribes 1
Legends (old version): No vehicle support
Legends (unreleased version): System in place for testing but not yet implemented.
Advantage Tribes 2
Master Server Support
Tribes 1: Community (official master server gone)
Tribes 2: Community (official master server gone)
Legends (both versions): Supported through Legends Dev Team and has been for years.
Advantage none of the above, basically a tie.
Tribes 1: Good access to modders
Tribes 2: Good access to modders
Legends (both versions): Good access to modders
Tie. All have very similar ease of access for modders. Tribes 2 and Legends (both versions) are very similar "under the hood" and generally speaking much of what works in Tribes 2 will likely be transferable to Legends and vice versa.
As I said, all 3 games are very viable Tribes like alternatives and each have their advantages/disadvantages. I have been involved with all 3 games starting with the release of Tribes 1 back in the late 90's. I have no "taliban" like mentality towards any of them. I do believe that the greater Tribes community should be playing all 3 and that Legends is deserving of much more attention than it has gotten over the years. Having been privileged enough to see the unreleased version of Legends I have to say that even though it admittedly is missing a few items in comparison to Tribes 1 and 2 it overall looks a whole lot better than either game. I don't just mean a little better, I mean a lot.
I love all 3 games but....and I say this with much sadness....because of the lack of commercial interest in furthering both Tribes 1 and 2 are basically stagnant and not improving and are only alive because of some very good and dedicated people with no thanks to the corporate interests. At this point the new "Tribes Ascend" (could have thot of a name with much less joke potential there) does not look to me to be capable of carrying on the Tribes style and tradition. I could be wrong and that remains to be seen. That leaves us with only 3 alternatives. My comparison of all 3 above was not meant to "diss" any of them. I have played them all and love them all for different reasons but....at this time and for the reasons I have mentioned plus some not I believe that Legends is probably the most viable. Still....that being said I also STRONGLY believe we fans should be supporting ALL three.....and NOT just ONE SERVER.
Sort of like what you see in Tribes 2 with the console.log file?
You guys could probably use the stats system I wrote for T2 (with a little work).
Yes it does. It creates a console.log for client and server. There was a simple stats system created by a member of the community a while back, "Lnxusr". Not sure if he borrowed from something else or knocked it together himself. As often happens he drifted off and his code is likely MIA now.
Its a missing feature in Legends and surely would add some legitimacy to the game. I'm sure what few players we have there would welcome it. I'm a script by blunder hope it works kind of scripter so I doubt I could do any more than mangle the heck out of it.
Don't try to pass it off as a change you made on your own server. I had it in a listen server.
Tribes 1: approx 3 seconds
Tribes 2: approx 3 seconds
Legends (old version): approx 5 seconds
Legends (unreleased version): approx 5 seconds
My customized Legends server: approx 8 seconds
Or what? You gonna grab your torch and pitchfork and come burn me out? (blasphemy! Non believer! Burn him at the stake!)
There may have been a time when the Legends Devs were experimenting with ctrl+k delay times. That may have been during the time you were running/testing your listen server. Currently the stock version of both released and unreleased versions use approx 5 seconds. Yes, it is slightly longer than the approx 3 seconds used in both versions of Tribes stock.....all of a whopping 2 seconds. (OMFG!)
As I said I had no input into what setting the Legends Dev Team decided to use....if so it would be as follows.
Since I fall into the camp of not thinking ctrl+k is really all that "cool" of a "strategic tactic" I added a whole 3 more seconds to my servers settings. Yes, I know.....civilization could fall in that massive amount of time but oh well, its my server. I guess its ok if I mod it how I want without first consulting the Taliban Elders.
On the other hand you're very wrong about the current stock settings for Legends. Theres only approx. 2 additional seconds over Tribes 1 and 2 and I had nothing to do with that choice. In my opinion that is a pretty reasonable approach they used.
They are employing the ut engine, with the wonderfull (preceeding word was sarcastic) ut netcode, and we all know the ut engine was made for smallish maps.
The things that made Tribes different from q3 and all the rest of the fps games at that time of release was personal flight ie jetpacks and the huge outdoor terrains to play upon. None of the rest of the then available games had that combination. The next but no less important item in the game was the scriptability, modability, and relative ease of mapping. Also, the netcode was fairly outstanding, and remains so today. A Tribes game truly needs outstanding netcode. So who knows how this is going to play out.