Expert snipers chime in - I need sniping advice

On average I have 75-100 ping. Straight ahead and up and down shots are a joke to make.

Where and how do I lead to land shots on the player that is flying to the right side (the awkward angle to hit ) and where and how do I lead to land shots on the player that is flying to the left in that awkward angle? I spent hours yesterday attempting to hit these shots with no success. It might be my mouse and pad (garbage)... but I want to make sure.

I guess what I am looking for is this:

1. any expert sniping demos to watch?
2. besides zoom control, what other scripts or mods should i download to assist in sniping that I dont know about?
3. advice on making those awkward side angle shots?
4. how do you set your sensitivity?
5. any other advice?

expert snipers please chime in. I think I am close to hitting those side angle shots but im missing the connection.
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Comments

  • Sniping, in my opinion, just takes experience and some luck. Some days, I can hit anything and other days, I can shoot worth crap.

    I tried all those fancy sniping scripts, and they just made it harder for me. I don't know about you.

    When I'm making awkward angled shots, I just lead, shoot, and hope I hit. Adjusting your zoom for the appropriate distance helps, too.

    To set your sensitivity, just go to settings, controls, and mouse configuration.
  • Sniping, in my opinion, just takes experience and some luck. Some days, I can hit anything and other days, I can shoot worth crap.

    I tried all those fancy sniping scripts, and they just made it harder for me. I don't know about you.

    When I'm making awkward angled shots, I just lead, shoot, and hope I hit. Adjusting your zoom for the appropriate distance helps, too.

    To set your sensitivity, just go to settings, controls, and mouse configuration.

    i dont have very many sniping hours logged which I am going to fix by sniping more. I was wondering more of the specifics of when the target is flying right - how far do I lead, do I put the xhair above them, straight out in front etc ?

    sensitivity - i was wondering what sensitivity and I guess now mouse that you guys use to snipe with.
  • I tried this one sniper script that reversed the trigger, so it would fire when you lifted the button instead of pressed. Turns out that my reflex reaction when realizing "oh there's my shot" would move the mouse off my shot when I lifted the finger, so dropped that one. I don't use any other scripts for sniping, just texture replacements.

    For leading, I don't think the sniper shot is hitscan, but it's obviously not anywhere near as slow as chaingun fodder or the discs. For all intents and purposes, it's near-instantaneous, so when leading you'll have to take into account where they are (leading just barely enough that your reticle keeps up); your ping time probably won't bring much into it, but might break leading if the target is really really out there.

    I don't snipe often, even though my normal loadout is the scout sniper (I do it for the engy and the option to snipe). Typically I'm only sniping on Broadside/Blastside these days, taking pot shots from one front entrance to another.
  • I tried this one sniper script that reversed the trigger, so it would fire when you lifted the button instead of pressed. Turns out that my reflex reaction when realizing "oh there's my shot" would move the mouse off my shot when I lifted the finger, so dropped that one. I don't use any other scripts for sniping, just texture replacements.

    For leading, I don't think the sniper shot is hitscan, but it's obviously not anywhere near as slow as chaingun fodder or the discs. For all intents and purposes, it's near-instantaneous, so when leading you'll have to take into account where they are (leading just barely enough that your reticle keeps up); your ping time probably won't bring much into it, but might break leading if the target is really really out there.

    I don't snipe often, even though my normal loadout is the scout sniper (I do it for the engy and the option to snipe). Typically I'm only sniping on Broadside/Blastside these days, taking pot shots from one front entrance to another.

    nice reply.

    for those that dont know : In first-person shooter games, a hitscan weapon is one that, when fired, instantly hits whatever the weapon is pointing at. This is in contrast to projectile weapons, which fire projectiles that take time to travel.

    I was under the impression that laser rifle was hitscan. knowing that it is in fact NOT hitscan is a step in the right direction.

    can you go into detail more about replacing textures for sniping? what you replaced it with, what it does, how it helps etc?

    also, I would like some of the expert snipers out there to reply as well (you know who you are)

    does anyone here use the reverse sniper script where you release mouse to fire?
  • i'm pretty sure the rifle is hitscan. what you're seeing is trigger lag.

    to the o.p., i use a low sens mouse setting normally and in-game i have .09 setting. basically with 100 ping you want to aim a full player width or length ahead to hit when they are going sideways from you and when they are going up aim just above their head and when they are coming down aim just below their feet. try it out and let us know how it goes.
  • i'm pretty sure the rifle is hitscan. what you're seeing is trigger lag.

    to the o.p., i use a low sens mouse setting normally and in-game i have .09 setting. basically with 100 ping you want to aim a full player width or length ahead to hit when they are going sideways from you and when they are going up aim just above their head and when they are coming down aim just below their feet. try it out and let us know how it goes.

    ok i thought it was hitscan too. can anyone else confirm?

    I am purchasing an actual gaming mouse today or tomorrow also so this should be good...

    Thanks for those tips. Any scripts or mods besides zoom control I should know about while sniping?
  • get uberzoom script. it hides the rifle while zoomed in. switch off most of the other settings but keep that on its really nice
  • Oh yes, the uberzoom script is very nice. I think that one also binds mouse wheel to change the zoom level while zoomed in, which I find very useful for keeping an eye on the surroundings of my target.

    Thyth posted the code for the sniper rifle's range (1000m base, it won't look further without modding), he should know if it's hitscan or not.
  • It is a "hitscan" weapon. The laser rifle uses a ray-casting algorithm to determine if an object intersects the ray before it terminates at 1000 meters. It performs these calculations immediately(almost :) ) disregarding time.
  • edited March 2009
    Practice. I can give advice at some point for tactics, but the actual hitting stuff part as Eolk said is experience and luck.

    Since it is an instant-hit weapon, ping matters a lot, but only in the sense that your ping is consistent on a day to day basis, or you can adjust fast. Ping/Personal reflex is how much you lead the target, it's "ok, I know by the time the order to fire registers, he'll be there"

    While you're practicing, you may want to preference targets that are actually moving instead of pot-shotting heavies and stationary targets, but I think that's pretty obvious :)

    Also: I use no scripts and no changes to sensitivity from the defaults :)

    And while I'm not going to start a pissing war by saying it's an uber-expert video, after one of the TWL matches way back when, I did a good enough job (higher score then the HO's) that people asked to see my demo. It's still up on TWL if you want to look at that: http://www.teamwarfare.com/demos/viewDemo.asp?DemoID=18829 Urgh, just checking now it appears to jam pretty fast into the recording, I was able to figure out on the internets that there is a way to fix that, but I couldn't find what. Well. Either way it's out there in some form.


    Side angle shots are done by either a ton of practice or pure luck. It's best to just position yourself so you don't have as many of those.

    EDIT: A post in support forums says to patch T2 with this and then the demos will run better http://www.teamwarfare.com/files/dl/Tribes2/T2DemoPatch.zip
  • ThythThyth Apotheosis Incarnate
    It's hitscan, but the network protocol, player position smoothing, and extrapolation make sniping with a target moving laterally to your forward vector extraordinarily unreliable in this game.

    Even with perfect aim, there is a component of luck.
  • Practice. I can give advice at some point for tactics, but the actual hitting stuff part as Eolk said is experience and luck.

    Since it is an instant-hit weapon, ping matters a lot, but only in the sense that your ping is consistent on a day to day basis, or you can adjust fast. Ping/Personal reflex is how much you lead the target, it's "ok, I know by the time the order to fire registers, he'll be there"

    While you're practicing, you may want to preference targets that are actually moving instead of pot-shotting heavies and stationary targets, but I think that's pretty obvious :)

    Also: I use no scripts and no changes to sensitivity from the defaults :)

    And while I'm not going to start a pissing war by saying it's an uber-expert video, after one of the TWL matches way back when, I did a good enough job (higher score then the HO's) that people asked to see my demo. It's still up on TWL if you want to look at that: http://www.teamwarfare.com/demos/viewDemo.asp?DemoID=18829 Urgh, just checking now it appears to jam pretty fast into the recording, I was able to figure out on the internets that there is a way to fix that, but I couldn't find what. Well. Either way it's out there in some form.


    Side angle shots are done by either a ton of practice or pure luck. It's best to just position yourself so you don't have as many of those.

    EDIT: A post in support forums says to patch T2 with this and then the demos will run better http://www.teamwarfare.com/files/dl/Tribes2/T2DemoPatch.zip


    Thanks for the advice. I would like to talk to you on irc later about more advanced tactics if you wouldnt mind since im adjusting from an offensive to defensive mind set after years of offensive conditioning :) .. whats your irc name i can find you as? I will talk to you / watch demos after work.

    what gaming mouse do you use?
  • I'm not on IRC much although I could show up. I'm more easily found through talking on goon haven (i actually read the chats during games). Maybe i'll get on IRC sometimes. I'm DarkBasilisk in most T2 related things.

    Btw guys i haven't seen this demo in a while: I *think* the second match is the better one, I'll find out soon.

    I use some kind of microsoft laser mouse. Optical ones did kinda get annoying after a while.

    Also: random blurb: the Beach Blitz is not to observe for tactics, looking back I bungled so many things on that match. Although you can have fun watching Tarzul, the master shrike rammer :P Let's hope I was right about the second demo being the winner, I'll find out soon :)
  • first, you'll probably need to turn your sensitivity way down. I'm just guessing here, but almost all the best snipers use very low sensitivities, and a lot of people struggle because they use much higher sensitivity than they need (I know it's different for different people's setups, but I use .08 for reference. guys like darkstrand actually have their sensitivity at .01)

    don't aim for headshots

    the best way to hit targets is to set yourself in a position where they're not moving perpendicular to your field of view, because that does require some luck

    always move while you're sniping. Better snipers are extremely comfortable firing while strafing, and actually, strafing into your shot (as in, strafing left or right to hit a target rather than trying to move your mouse) is one of the ways you can more reliably hit targets

    other than that, you can't really "teach" sniping. It's just a lot of muscle memory. I recommend just using it in every light loadout you have, and attempting to use it almost any chance you get. Use it in duels, at close range, whenever you see someone skiing away, etc.
  • also, if you want to talk about really specific stuff (and i mean REALLY specific), you can harass darkstrand in irc (i'm sure he'll love it), since he's probably the best sniper in t2, and is crazy technical about his setup and how to snipe
  • Projectile, you forgot to mention close range sniping is also amazingly fun ^_^ The first time I jousted and coup de graced someone in the head with my rifle was the second best moment ever in T2 (first was an awesome lance, I managed to get behind someone and kill them before even I had registered what exactly I had done)

    I'm mixed on strafing, even from that reply when I wasn't at my best, you can see I did it or tried to do it a couple times, but I think really you get good with what comes natural to you first, then try to pickup better mechanics. Except for duels, learn to do the duel dance really well :)

    Btw, on the demo, it's actually the third match there, there's a 5-8 minute interlude where everyone TK's each other, and then you guys are in for a pretty good treat. I looked it over and it's a really close match near the end, and I get some nice shots with the rifle, and even nicer lances to their bumbling heavy offense *grin*
  • first, you'll probably need to turn your sensitivity way down. I'm just guessing here, but almost all the best snipers use very low sensitivities, and a lot of people struggle because they use much higher sensitivity than they need (I know it's different for different people's setups, but I use .08 for reference. guys like darkstrand actually have their sensitivity at .01)

    don't aim for headshots

    the best way to hit targets is to set yourself in a position where they're not moving perpendicular to your field of view, because that does require some luck

    always move while you're sniping. Better snipers are extremely comfortable firing while strafing, and actually, strafing into your shot (as in, strafing left or right to hit a target rather than trying to move your mouse) is one of the ways you can more reliably hit targets

    other than that, you can't really "teach" sniping. It's just a lot of muscle memory. I recommend just using it in every light loadout you have, and attempting to use it almost any chance you get. Use it in duels, at close range, whenever you see someone skiing away, etc.

    sounds like great advice as well. My sens is currently at .4 or .04 (its pretty low) for all weapons. should I set it to where it only turns to .04 for sniper? (i think zoom control can do this)

    I have always been aiming for headshots for maximum damage... why do you suggest against it? (im giong to assume lower chance of scoring a hit?)

    ill practice the strafe shots... its funny because I keep going for the crazy side shots and missing going what the hell when all the good snipers are just strafing to soften up the angle :D
  • edited March 2009
    I am also having a little problem with chaingun aiming if you guys have advice on that - it seems like the chaingun is behaving different than I am used to in t1. Sometimes I will mow my targets apart and other times ill miss every shot I am very inconsistent (im not sure how far to lead etc)


    edit: I remember being a cg pro in t1 but im having a little bit of a carryover into t2.. could be that I am just rusty.
  • I am also having a little problem with chaingun aiming if you guys have advice on that - it seems like the chaingun is behaving different than I am used to in t1. Sometimes I will mow my targets apart and other times ill miss every shot I am very inconsistent (im not sure how far to lead etc)
    For the chaingun, you still have to lead and determine if it's reasonable to use it against your target. Using chaingun on far-away targets is generally a bad idea, and you'll just chew up ammo.

    Projectile is right, don't aim for the head unless your target is standing still and is easily hit-able. Aiming for the head is like a gamble -- it's either all (you hit doing massive damage) or nothing (you don't hit at all).
  • I am also having a little problem with chaingun aiming if you guys have advice on that - it seems like the chaingun is behaving different than I am used to in t1. Sometimes I will mow my targets apart and other times ill miss every shot I am very inconsistent (im not sure how far to lead etc)
    For the chaingun, you still have to lead and determine if it's reasonable to use it against your target. Using chaingun on far-away targets is generally a bad idea, and you'll just chew up ammo.

    Projectile is right, don't aim for the head unless your target is standing still and is easily hit-able. Aiming for the head is like a gamble -- it's either all (you hit doing massive damage) or nothing (you don't hit at all).

    I may have been using error in tactical judgement when trying to cg targets 300+m away
  • I am also having a little problem with chaingun aiming if you guys have advice on that - it seems like the chaingun is behaving different than I am used to in t1. Sometimes I will mow my targets apart and other times ill miss every shot I am very inconsistent (im not sure how far to lead etc)
    For the chaingun, you still have to lead and determine if it's reasonable to use it against your target. Using chaingun on far-away targets is generally a bad idea, and you'll just chew up ammo.

    Projectile is right, don't aim for the head unless your target is standing still and is easily hit-able. Aiming for the head is like a gamble -- it's either all (you hit doing massive damage) or nothing (you don't hit at all).

    I may have been using error in tactical judgement when trying to cg targets 300+m away

    Yea, the chaingun is for really close unless the person is almost dead. Anyone worth their salt will be able to dodge chaingun fire pretty well at that distance.

    I am also having a little problem with chaingun aiming if you guys have advice on that - it seems like the chaingun is behaving different than I am used to in t1. Sometimes I will mow my targets apart and other times ill miss every shot I am very inconsistent (im not sure how far to lead etc)
    For the chaingun, you still have to lead and determine if it's reasonable to use it against your target. Using chaingun on far-away targets is generally a bad idea, and you'll just chew up ammo.

    Projectile is right, don't aim for the head unless your target is standing still and is easily hit-able. Aiming for the head is like a gamble -- it's either all (you hit doing massive damage) or nothing (you don't hit at all).

    Note entirely true on the staying still part. If the person is moving/flying in a relatively straight pattern (preferably going towards or away from you), scoring a headshot is quite possible. Even walking diagonally isn't too hard to headshot.

    But yes, if the shot's even moderately difficult, aim for the body, dead center is pretty good since you have a small amount of room to miss.
  • thanks, im used to chaingun have some good distance in tribes1.
  • It's hitscan, but the network protocol, player position smoothing, and extrapolation make sniping with a target moving laterally to your forward vector extraordinarily unreliable in this game.

    Even with perfect aim, there is a component of luck.

    There is a way to disable "Player Position Smoothing", correct? Would this create an advantage, and is it fair(not a cheat)?
  • i would say the rifle is balanced without interpolation because of how much damage it does
  • It's hitscan, but the network protocol, player position smoothing, and extrapolation make sniping with a target moving laterally to your forward vector extraordinarily unreliable in this game.

    Even with perfect aim, there is a component of luck.

    There is a way to disable "Player Position Smoothing", correct? Would this create an advantage, and is it fair(not a cheat)?

    in for response .
  • It's hitscan, but the network protocol, player position smoothing, and extrapolation make sniping with a target moving laterally to your forward vector extraordinarily unreliable in this game.

    Even with perfect aim, there is a component of luck.

    There is a way to disable "Player Position Smoothing", correct? Would this create an advantage, and is it fair(not a cheat)?

    in for response .
    you've opened the can of worms with that question...
  • edited March 2009
    My average ping is about 200 to 250 ms, so I have discovered how network code is constructed. Even with my ping, sometimes sniping is more effective than chainguning (at that ping chainguning, or using blaster get loose my plot and I cannot hit anything, at low distances especialy). Look when You firing chaingun or blaster with large ping and moving eg. in left direction - it will be looking like someone at your right side is firing, not You.

    I have began my researches with spinfusior. The direction that disk is fired is the direction that your crosshair was when clicked a mouse (+ your momentum), the place where disk was fired is that place where you've been when you clicked a mouse. But time when a disk is fired is the time you've clicked, but delayed by your current ping.

    So conclusion is:
    Laser Rifle is not a hitscan weapon, it is like other projectile weapons but shoots a projectle with infinite speed - so when you want to hit anything you have just to know where will be the enemy 'your ping' ahead, but remember the beam is fired from position where you've been, not where you are now. So that makes sniping not easy job, luck is more useful here than estimating this things - but it is still possible to hit fast moving targets, even with large ping.
    Shock Lance is based on the same rules i guess.

    Making LR or SL a hitscan weapon it will unbalance other weapons, and make the gameplay using LR less, or even not "fluent" - matter of aiming will be easy like in counter strike. But now aiming is 'mystic', cause our conditions (ping) is changing all the time, so aiming is not based on mastering a mouse and behave like BOT, but still thinking and counting on luck - it is more human - that makes Tribes a specyfic game, in witch gaming of a pro players don't look like they're bots (like in CS) doing their alorithm, but they think. Of course hitscan making aimbots less effective than our brains are :)
  • ThythThyth Apotheosis Incarnate
    Laser Rifle is not a hitscan weapon, it is like other projectile weapons but shoots a projectle with infinite speed
    Congratulations, you have successfully defined what a hitscan weapon is. A projectile with infinite velocity.

    Any anomalies in behavior can be traced to latency in the firing command, and the extrapolation/smoothing done on the client side position depictions. It's done as a raycast on the server side.

    As for disabling it, yes... it's possible. The client game is responsible for providing smooth rendering coordinates based on the ghosted coordinates. The ghosted coordinates are still accessible within the game. You can either manipulate the network interpolation settings or access the ghost data directly. Accessing ghost data and depicting unsmoothed coordinates in a useful way is an exercise left to the reader.
  • sounds like great advice as well. My sens is currently at .4 or .04 (its pretty low) for all weapons. should I set it to where it only turns to .04 for sniper? (i think zoom control can do this)

    I have always been aiming for headshots for maximum damage... why do you suggest against it? (im giong to assume lower chance of scoring a hit?)

    ill practice the strafe shots... its funny because I keep going for the crazy side shots and missing going what the hell when all the good snipers are just strafing to soften up the angle :D
    I have 0.15 sensitivity using a small mouse (more sensitive) hitting 70-80% snipeshots on the top of my game, so it depends on the person.

    For headshots, the enemy's velocity plus ping fluxuation makes it unreliable. Usually, the math just doesn't work out.

    Strafe shots, shocklance-range shots, high-speed mid-air shots. If you can see them, you can hit them. That's the feeling you want when you whip out the rifle.

    For practice, try Blast/Broadside:
    Fire at a designated target every 5 seconds regardless of how stable your aim is or your position.
    Repeat 1000x
    ???
    Profit!
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