Consolidation is key!

Hey everyone!
Like all of you I am a huge T2 nut and the only reason I haven't played is one we all know too well- lack of players.

Nothing pisses me off more than going into the server list and seeing 6 servers each with 5-10 people in them. Tribes is meant to be played with large groups- it's what makes this game so bleeding awesome. With 30+ people in a server, players cna break off into smaller squads and assign themselves intersting, dynamic and fun roles to better their team's chances of winning.

So with this "rebirth" of T2, does anyone have any suggestions for consolidating people into one or two key servers which will then always have fun activities engaging?

Has anyone from this site gotten in touch with Elite Warriors Online? If not, that would be a huge first step!

I plan on linking this site in my sig of the few other forums I frequent (IE Sherdog.com and a few MMO beta sites).

All in all, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for making the possibility of T2 playable any night of the week; not just on Fridays with EWO (which I am rarely home to participate in). I do not have a ton of time to commit to the cause, so to speak, but if there is something small I can do, please PM me or make a sticky and I will try to do my part to spread the word, etc. etc.

Comments

  • EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.
  • EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.

    Is the EWO T2 player base big enough for a split to be an issue?

    -Phil
  • Their is one server I always find flull then down then up again only expanded. Its solofiresmeltdown2 server. it usually has around 60 people (thats right people) and no bots. Also other servers usually have around 40 when im on. Remember it just has been a week so dont be freakin out it will get better (and crowded) later just wait. :)
  • Their is one server I always find flull then down then up again only expanded. Its solofiresmeltdown2 server. it usually has around 60 people (thats right people) and no bots. Also other servers usually have around 40 when im on. Remember it just has been a week so dont be freakin out it will get better (and crowded) later just wait. :)

    Mmm... More people to slaughter.
  • EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.

    That sucks to hear EWO is going their own direction, but it is their choice. I played tonight for the first time through this client and saw some of the EWO vets around. My guess is that they will all slowly come over here and probably just keep their EWO servers for FNFs like they currently do.

    As for not wanting to play the same thing, I totally agree with you man. If some people want to play shifter that is cool. If others want to do team Hunters- fine, etc. etc. I am just a big proponent of combining the base servers so people can play together. I certainly do not want to deny people the option of wanting to play a map with 10 people, but more often than not I find people would rather have fun playing on a maxed server population. I never wanted to force anyone to do anything, just make sure they know they have the choice is all.

    Anyhoo... I was playing tonight and I saw from one of the admins that tribesnext.com has hosted somewhere around 8000 downloads tonight- which is freakin incredible. This discussion may end up being moot if this really catches on like I hope it will.

    See you all in game!
    -Leifis
  • seems the ol' SA goons found out too. they had two servers up tonight, one of which was packed to the brim with people. I saw a bomber of all things actually getting regular use. hell, I haven't seen that since the first year I played T2.
  • We had 50 people in the SA server earlier tonight. Kicked ass.

    That server's down "for the foreseeable future" though until another goon throws one up.
  • Yeah those classic servers have any where between 30-50 people in them..BUT as for Solofires meltdown. It says it has around 60 people but once you check the list of players theres only about 20 actual players and he runs about 14 bots or somewhere near there. He said he was going to talk to Krash about that problem. Don't know if he ever did but I pointed that problem out to him a few days ago.
  • The not showing ai totals correctly may be a client issue, not a server issue.
  • edited January 2009
    EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.

    The last time I played on their Dallas server there was some discussion about the legal legitimacy of tribesnext. The consensus is that tribesnext is going to get shutdown as soon as vivendi catches wind of it. This may be the reason they are staying out. Perhaps someone should explain why tribesnext complies with copyright laws, I nominate Thyth or WarLovr or Kryand. Or Visciousstarfish lol!
  • EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.

    The last time I played on their Dallas server there was some discussion about the legal legitimacy of tribesnext. The consensus is that tribesnext is going to get shutdown as soon as vivendi catches wind of it. This may be the reason they are staying out. Perhaps someone should explain why tribesnext complies with copyright lays, I nominate Thyth or WarLovr or Kryand. Or Visciousstarfish lol!

    I would assume because of the combination of these things.
    1: Vivendi was giving it out for free as a promotion to Tribes Vengence.
    So they are not infringing on distribution rights of T2.
    2: They no longer support T2.
    3: TribesNext isn't claiming ownership of T2.
    and they are not claiming they Vivendi is responsible
    for and Modifications made to T2.

    4: TribesNext isn't selling it.

    But Vivendi retains the rights to stop any modifications to T2 While the T2 is still in copyright. This isn't the same copyright for owning the rights for future Tribes titles.

    -Phil
  • On the subject of server player limits, I find a much better game with 28 or less than one with 28 or more players. Some servers really don't compute gamestate very well at more than about 28 players.
  • EWO will not be using TribesNext by their own personal choice. The reason for this is unknown - but I can assure you it isn't a good one. My guess is they want to have complete control over their own system rather than use an existing good one. They paid some guy to make another crappy auth system for them, and that's what they use.

    As far as the consolidation, well there's not much that can be done. There aren't to many duplicate servers out there. What I mean by that is - almost every server is running a mod that no other server is running. There are a couple classic and base servers, but other than that, most of them are unique. So, the reason for the spread out player base is that not everyone wants to play the same thing. There's not much you can do about that. There's also not much that you should do about that.

    The last time I played on their Dallas server there was some discussion about the legal legitimacy of tribesnext. The consensus is that tribesnext is going to get shutdown as soon as vivendi catches wind of it. This may be the reason they are staying out. Perhaps someone should explain why tribesnext complies with copyright laws, I nominate Thyth or WarLovr or Kryand. Or Visciousstarfish lol!

    Rest assured, TribesNext is in the Legal clear. Thyth is probably the only one who provided the evidence to everyone that this is the truth. However, we have already explained to them how this project has taken all the necessary precautions to prevent any sort of legal infringement. VSF and EWO have to realize this by now, so the fact that they are clinging to that false excuse tells me that they don't actually have a reason. They just want to be difficult.
  • We're in the legal clear.

    The Digital Millennium Copyright Act explicitly permits projects of this sort -- both in the reverse engineering and in the implementation of this sort of system. The Sierra end user license agreement can only GIVE rights that are not already granted under copyright law.

    The United States Code Title 17, Section 1201, Subsection f states:
    (f) Reverse Engineering.—
    (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
    (2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.
    (3) The information acquired through the acts permitted under paragraph (1), and the means permitted under paragraph (2), may be made available to others if the person referred to in paragraph (1) or (2), as the case may be, provides such information or means solely for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title or violate applicable law other than this section.
    (4) For purposes of this subsection, the term “interoperability” means the ability of computer programs to exchange information, and of such programs mutually to use the information which has been exchanged.

    Since the game was released for free on FilePlanet for all to download, any copy of that installation is explicitly a lawfully distributed copy of the game. This also happens to be why we link to an unmodified version of that 2004 installer.

    The patch itself is a unique work, and contains absolutely zero contents derived from Sierra's game. Every byte in that patcher is ours, thus outside of any Sierra jurisdiction. Since the patch is a product for interoperability, it falls into the legal white space defined in T17S1201f. In fact... this patch can be applied to certain versions of Torque too.

    This topic has really been beaten to death though. I've specifically received communication from members of the smaller initiatives that have been along the lines of: "for every law in your favor, there is one against you." But, for all that... two essential facts remain: copyright law trumps EULA, and DMCA 1201f.
  • Thank you Thyth, I had read that in one of your earlier posts as well and would have quoted you but couldn't find it on the construct forums. Any possibility someone can relay that information to Tim of Elite Warriors oline, I have no way of contacting him. As I said earlier, I was under the impression that they weren't on board because then doubted it was legal.
  • They didn't like our advertising campaign prior to the official servers going down at the end of last October, and they paid someone to build a new system that they use now. Their reasons for not using this system are likely out of spite.

    In any case, we have about 40 times the number of registered and active users. If they want to stay in their little corner, that is up to them.
  • Something that concerns me, and I don;t have anything against them, si that they must authorise your account, whereas with next no human can tell you yes or no.
  • They didn't like our advertising campaign prior to the official servers going down at the end of last October, and they paid someone to build a new system that they use now. Their reasons for not using this system are likely out of spite.

    In any case, we have about 40 times the number of registered and active users. If they want to stay in their little corner, that is up to them.

    This theory may be true for the puppeteer of the masses but I for one am of the idealistic mind in favor of a sensible reason in the eyes of the populous. In short, someone convinced(or deceived) the bulk of the EWO users that joining the TribesNext campaign was detrimental to them or their tribe in one way or another.

    We can't deny those players the opportunity to be involved in a Tribes2 rebirth because the selfish few by way of dishonor have denied them involvment. Thyth, are there any logical reasons that you can think of that TribesNext would have a negative impact on EWO? If the answer is no, then either we are ignorant of that reason, or they have been persuaded other wise.
  • I'm not denying them anything. Any one of them could download the patch, create an account, and start playing.
  • edited January 2009
    I'm not denying them anything. Any one of them could download the patch, create an account, and start playing.

    Thyth, when I spoke of the selfish few(who deny them) I was speaking of those on their server who have convinced them through lies not to use TribesNext as their replacement master server solution.

    I have the utmost respect for you and the work you have done to help restore the Tribes 2 community.

    With that said, please consider all of my post relevant to this topic as a means to include those who have been unjustly excluded and thereby further contribute to the Tribes community. In summation: you're awesome, no dis bro.
  • I talked to Lonewolf a few days ago when there was around 500 people registered, that he should reconsider the situation, but he ended up making another excuse which i don't remember, and I tried calling him on it, but he just said something to the extent of "if im wrong, that's how it's going to be." In the past few years, he has had a pretty hard time, pretty much losing his entire business from rampant investors, starting up a new one, having that one split in two, watching t2 die slowly, getting shit from people in his server, and god knows what else, so I can understand why he would be a bit resistant towards change. Still, that doesn't make him right.
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